Auction 1974 Maserati Bora at auction now

Very nice presentation, Dean. I love a Bora with proper bumpers. I’m sure you’ll get a good result.

Did you do the listing or hire a specialist? I ask because I’m in Florida too, and if I ever offer a car on BAT I’ll be looking for professional help.

Thanks and good luck.

 

Thanks. I’m “watching.”

 

I remember when Ghiblis couldn't make any sort of decent money, stuck in the place where putting them right exceeded nay value you could fetch.
The bora and Ciren SM show what will happen to many modern "supercars" built on tech. What happens is the tech becomes old tech and ahindernace.
The advanced porsche 959 was and is always worth way less than the unsophisticated 288. The p59 is getting some second wind as its a porche and also becase canepa has reengineered them to work viably in the 21st century.

Boras are stunningly beautiful, like their competitors countach and Bb theyre imply not that fast by modern standards. The countach of the era is worth the most by far, a periscopo being a million dollar car today, even though in period it was the hardest to live with by far.

The maintenance fear and somewhat subdued styling keeps Bora prices low. That means the rest of us mere mortals get to enjoy them. Compared to so many others they simply have class. If you can keep one alive and heathy at home theyre more than worth it. If you have to pay specialists then financially it seems a deep hole.

I guess if there a great one, as this one appears to be, and I knew what it took to keep one healthy at home then its really interesting.

 

Classic Maserati sales at Monterey were pretty weak last week. Its certainly worth more.

Good luck finding it a new happy home!

 

FYI there are many specialists in Europe and also the USA who cater to Citroen SM's and classic Maseratis, they know what needs to be taken care of (they have done far, far more in terms of sorting out old endemic issues than a single shop like Canepa's on 959's) and numerous SM's have been driven high six figure numbers. Classic Maserati with over 100K kms or even 100K miles are not unheard of as shocking as this might be to the mausoleum garage/trailer queen folks.

In the USA there was the late Jerry Hathaway whom I interviewed several times who had hundreds of SM under his supervision with many of them driven as daily drivers around Los Angeles. There are others now who are really good.

What should never be done is entrust them to some shadetree mechanic who will almost certainly cause a lot of damage by incompetence, I have seen it happen many times, such as confusing hydraulic fluid with brake fluid etc.

The hydraulic system os not rocket science or black magic, it is just plumbing. Hundreds of thousands of hydraulic Citroen have been drive daily and perfectly reliably in Europe for over half a century.

FYI Rolls Royce used Citroen hydraulics from he sixties to the nineties, how about that for an endorsement.

When I needed LHM fluid for my Khamsin in Fort Lauderdale I went to the nearby RR dealer's parts counter, it was very chap too like in Europe.

You just need the right people to maintain them. If you like to tinker then fine; what these cars need can be learned.

But like always they need to be driven regularly to be kept in running order, they don't like to sit any more than other classics.

 

Yes i know there is sm world on the west coast, and the timing chain on the sm has a retrofit fix.
Are there peopel in Florida who know these cars.
The issue is mostly their value is such that there is much deferred maintenance, therefore finding a good one is not straightforward. Alas neither a SM nor even a Bora is worth the cost of restoration. That's a place the ghibli was in for decades.

yes rolls uses the same hydraulic fluid and many an old rolls can be found with poor hydraulics sitting on its rear haunches. Im sure properly maintained theyre fine. How long do the lines last?

Sometimes cars have tech for techs sake, that becomes ana chilies heel 20+ years down the line. In newer cars that will be an issue at +5 years when the screen goes bad and the manufacture no longer does software updates.

The SM especially the few injected ones was a hugely ambitious project. As an FYI my aunt bought one new in the early 70s in belgium and then shipped it when she moved to south africa where she drove it daily well into the 90s when it was wrecked by someone running a light. It was the first fine car I ever rode in and my enduring memory of it was how nice the inetrior was and just how smooth the whole machine was.

South Africa in those days like NZ today has a mechanical culture with the belief we can fix build etc anything( they even built 8 atom bombs) and there were plenty of ds rolling around so the experince existed.

However Isee very few sms today that are in good shape and its especially rare to see one compactly redone and competently at that. The beauty fo these cars(and an SM is fine art to look at and drive) including a Bora is they can be had for relatively little money but are every bit the equal if not better than classics costing 5-10x the price. Id love to find an sm somebody spent all the money on that I could buy for market price, in that case it woudl be top dollar for the car with the resto thrown in for free.

the Bora its hard to say where it fits, in its era it was not the top performer and then tried to stake out its place being tech advanced and more comfy, as witht he 959 those are not highly coveted traits decades later. The looks of course are fantastic. What can i say, as BBI owner I think the classic, market is stupid, it pays 450k for a steel bodies series production v6 dino, and half that for a handbuilt aluminum bodies flat 12. Thats the same market that 25 years ago said a 288 gto wouldn't be worth much cause it looked like a 308 and had miura at 50% of the value of a daytona for decades. Suddenly eventually the checkbook warriors discover a car as the one to have and prices balloon. Remember 3500 Gt stuck at 35 k for decades, then supergera astons became a thing and the 3500 got pulled along.

Would love to try a Bora. In the Uk Bill Mgarth used to be the bora man and I remember reading about how he redid the motors, really woke the whole car up.

Ps I think the Khamsin is one of the most inspired car designs ever.

 

FYI Jerry Hathaway passed a couple of years ago alas and the SM world company assets were sold on to other people carrying out the activity.

McGrath Maserati in the UK has expanded a lot, Bill passed away years ago and the company is now run by Andy Heywood.

 

This is another SM expert https://www.excelsiormotors.com/about_us.php

 

I've always thought a Boxer should be worth more than a Dino. Don't get me wrong, the Dino is beautiful, but a flat 12 with a flip up engine bonnet is spectacular. I've been fortunate enough to be around both, I was as giddy as a school girl ridding in the 512. I have a soft spot for the Bora as well. I collected literature & even a model years ago. The trans is the same as my Pantera, a ZF. They shift like butter. A crapped out example recently sold for around 50k, missing parts, rusted out. The time & money it will cost just to make a driver might be a bit more than ridiculous.

 

Interesting, Im a big pantera fan. For awhile had a superformance Gt40, alas not such great quality and unable to stay together on track. The panetra looks greata nd was designed by an Tom Tjarda who also did the fiat spider and was American. Always heard a pantera was like a Gt40 for the road. Its interesting that while a bora is far more "exotic" than a pantera theyre worth more or less the same money for same condition.

the boxer is great, and primitive enough that its easy to take care of at home.
One of the things I like about the whole panetra thing is tastefully upgraded cars are correctly worth more, wheels and a desmogged motor being top of the list . In boxerland the achilles heel is the crappy period Michelins, yet ferrari snobs freak out if you put 17 in wheels on and modern rubber which both improves ride, grip and feel. I guess as with panetra and boras Boxers are still "relatively" inexpensive enough that there are still owners who drive them as god and Enzo intended, although less and less every year.

i think dino values reflecta few things. Firstly while mid engined it has that classic 60s ferrai look, which si what many "collectors" want and its 3 million less than a 275. Also its easy to drive and live with. Boxers are painful to just cruise and magic when you get on it, but you have to be able to actualy Drive and feel the car to do that, and that eliminates a lot of buyers other than static queens and trundle to cars and coffee crowd. Also if a dino exists today to its been restored which means its relatively turn key

Always read that rust was the panteras big issue, so to find one redone repainted as a starting point seems to be the base unless you want pain and $$

 

Yes I know of David Hume, good good guy, very competent.

 

I’ve always admired the SM, a blend of French and Italian…..




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chef’s kiss!

 

What is your understanding about maintenance fear? Are you just repeating the internet trope and "automotive journalists" chatter about these cars Or do you have genuine concern that's specific? I've owned mine since 1987 and have gone through all of the systems so perhaps I could alive some of your fears?

BTW, the LHM was least problematical issue on this car meaning that I spent the least amount of time and money working on it.

 

Ive got a ferrari BBI. I assuming a Bora is not less than that or any older Italian car. The hydraulics are just small part of it, but have read at some point hoses line etc need to be replaced.

To me its question of what major things have bene redone replaced etc in the last 10 years or so, because after 40-50 years for sure it all needs going though, thats true of almost any car, there is just more tog o through on bora than a panetra. .
On your car you have had the time and skills to do it yourself.

 

Out of curiosity, how difficult would it be to "de-Citroen" the Bora (and/or Khamsin) of their funky hydraulics? I can see this being a bigger improvement than the current Manual Swap movement to de-F1 otherwise interesting Ferraris.
Has anyone done something in this direction?

 

Don't go there. For the Khamsin it's an even more integral part of the car than the Bora due to the steering and clutch. It has been done to one of the Group 4 Thepenier Boras but that's a purpose built race car worh looking up at least. I had a friend who decided to try this and AFAIK he never completed the job. The last I heard his car was with Wil Degroot. If you want something like that get a non LHM Merak and upgrade the V6. There are people on here doing exactly this. I would expect that a modification as radical as that will hurt it's resale value. The LHM is not that difficult to work with. A Rolls Royce mechanic or an airplane mechanic are both quite accustomed to this sort of hydraulic system. Ditto for backhoe mechanic. The Citroen SM is much more involved because of the suspension. The braking systems on modern Maseratis, Ferraris, Lamborghinis ... are far more complex.

Why would you think of this as any kind of an improvement? The LHM fluid does not absorb water so corrosion of the system is far less than with brake fluid and these brake are far more powerful at high speed , say like at the track or on other high speed road adventures. No, getting rid of that cambiocorsa tranny is far more beneficial IMHO. A well sorted Bora drives just fine with the LHM brakes. The seat adjustment is a bit silly as it only tilts.

 

I don't mean to denigrate Panteras but a comparison with a Bora is not appropriate.
Hoses and brake lines need replacing on just about nay car after that amount of time. They're not expensive parts. The spheres do need to be done just like on Bentleys and RRs. If a mechanic can't do that then you're in the wrong shop. I've done the hydraulic pistons, brakelines and hoses once in all the years of ownership.

 

You comparison to Bentleys and Rr is appropriate. These cars can be bought for 20k but can easily eat that amount if not double to put right, which is why one from always maintained and gone through by reputable specialist easily costs double.
i guess my point is that there is vast different between a running bora and a properly running one. By the same token i know of may a so called great low mileage BB that looks good and runs that will easily eat 50k to be right. Now many cant tell the difference between a car that runs and runs right nut that's a sperate discussion.

Yes by now everything rubber on a bora that carries fluids should have been gone through, if not its gonna cost, and how does ht eneophyte tell, hence the fear.

On a pantera what is there but some belts hoses and bushings and most of these cars have bene extensively modified so done.
On Boxers and Boras its quite possible the car works but to to really use it all needs doing hence the price ding. Even more so for a QP3 nice as they are.

Yes you cant compare a pantera to a bora technically, but as both are old cars none really have modern levels of performance so the point of differentiation for many is somewhat muted.

Do Boras use the citroen steering system?

Always loved boras, and Im in florida

 

Boras have an ordinary rack and pinion. The hydraulic clutch circuit is simple and utilizes regular brake fluid. It could benefit from a powered system just like the Countach could. If you know how to work on cars you can easily become family with the Bora's hydraulic system. The most expensive components are the hydraulic pistons which are now re-imagined in stainless steel with self servicing O-ring seals just like normal hydraulic piston on industrial equipment and not the dumbass Bosch design which was also seen the big MB 600 pullman. Those pistons were held together with liquid nylon injected into groves machined into the outside of piston body and inside of the end sealing cap. Not a DIY service design.

 

This is precisely why I build 3.3L 'super Meraks' and have never really messed with Bora's. Merak is a 500-600lbs lighter car, far more simple to work on, and with 3.3L engines I build, much faster and exotic sounding with 8000rpm 300hp V6.