Has Ferrari Lost It's Luster?

Believe what? Which model of these Flavio designs are universally considered ugly?

• F12
• LaFerrari
• 458 Speciale
• 488
• 812
• F8
• SP1/SP2
• Portofino/Roma
• 296

 

Maybe. Or maybe his new design language really is more divisive. Even the best bands can release albums that flop.

What you're describing happens. Certainly, there have been cars that I've come to appreciate more with the passage of time. But I've never personally come to like a car that I once disliked.

TBC, I'm not saying I dislike all the cars on your bottom list. I would not have grouped them as you did. I'm only commenting on the phenomenon.

 

I think you may have missed how they are grouped.

 

Spot on, I’m old enough to remember folks hating on the bug eye, 308gt4, 488, hell, even the F50 was practically being given away cuz how “ugly” it was. Even the Daytona was panned by critics when it first came out.

time is kind to all Ferrari.

 

New versus old, current versus retired (roughly)? Was there something else?

I don't think that's the relevant divide. Obviously it will vary for different people. But the theme we're observing is a divided response to a dramatic change in design language. That's another variation of new versus old. But the change in design language that is drawing reactions is not shared across those six cars.

 

Design is inherently subjective. My thesis is not an attempt to make an objective claim. It is however something I’ve seen in the Ferrari world my whole life. New designs are hated, then half these “haters” change their mind after a few years. By no means all, but my personal anecdotal experience is “most.”

isn’t it great the internet is forever?

simply look at my old list and you’ll find no shortage of criticism of said model, yet could you tell me who seriously says a LaFerrari ugly today?

 

He did not design all those.

 

IIRC none of those cars was really universally considered “ugly” on debut. A few certainly generated some criticism but no where near the level of negativity of this new car.

Although they won’t say it publicly for fear of being black listed, I’m shocked at how many current owners I know really hate this car. It will be interesting to see how many hold their nose and get one just to stay in line for the next.

I knew something was definitely wrong when my professional friends in car design were blowing up my phone with “WTF?!?!” comments upon it’s release.

In all my life I have never seen a new Ferrari so universally disliked by the public and pros alike.

Only time will tell if they were wrong.

 

The 812 is ungainly, the F80 a complete mess, the SF90 looks anything but a Ferrari, and yet all 3 sold very very well. Suspect same as usual, newer buyers and regional expansion.

 

Considering im on the younger side of this forum (being 32) i can vouch and say even the younger generation finds the new 849 testarossa absolutely hideous. As a kid everything Ferrari did had me oozing over the cars and dreaming about their cars. Now even if id won something insane like the powerball at 1.8 billion, i would NOT even think of buying a new Ferrari for a split second... For me almost everything from the 488 onwards already doesnt intrigue me anymore other than a 812 GTS or Competizione (Aperta). The styling just sucks, and their engines dont give me goosebumps anymore like cars like a 360CS or a 599 made when they came out... To me, new Ferrari's have ABSOLUTELY lost their Luster, and its a ****ing disgrace!

 

It’s an absolute embarrassment and a simple attempt again I will say to infuse old really classic design with modern garbage. The old Daytonas and testarossa models are timeless and amazing. Could have been something so different in present day but decided to cheap out and just pull a name back and put a color strip down and maybe hope the new generation thinks it’s a testarossa. Sorry but no.

 

Maybe it's cyclical and Ferrari has 25 year design cycles of what looks better relative to the other quarter. I.e. 1947-1972 being great. 1972-1997 less so imo. 1997-2022 improved designs. Now 2022+ we're back in a lull? I don't know the age of the head designers on staff, but maybe it's alternating on generations of what lead designer grew up with what...lol.

 

I’m 39 and I am working up through range through a 360 and 430 and next stop is likely a 488 (I personally think the 458 is highly overrated, I’ve been in a couple and the sound isn’t amazing. The 488 represents much better value and the turbo thing is overblown, the 288 GTO and F40 aren’t exactly ugly ducks in the Ferrari lineup).

The question is where do I go after that. The SF90 does nothing for me. I do like the 296. But I’m never gonna buy a 2/3 owner 296 in a private sale like I did the 360 and 430. I can deal with a US$10 or even 20k bill (hello F430 ceramics) but not a $100k battery replacement (caveat I have no idea what the actual cost of that is).

I do like the new 12C so maybe all is not lost. Also it’s not like other brands haven’t lost their lustre as well. Lambo has the crypto bro image and no real racing pedigree; McLaren never really did it for me and they are unreliable as hell.

 

Go backwards of course to a 355, 550, 430 manual or similar. Maybe a CS or Scud since you don't like the 458. That's what everyone outside of the collector / 1 of everything customers will be chasing.

 

I believe it started around here.

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No longer interested in newer Ferraris, yes they lost their luster. Reasons why:
1. Design: gone are the seductive, aerodynamic lines that flow curvaceously…now we have angulated, Tron looking cars with bars in front. Balance is lost.
2. Engine: they are all becoming the same amongst manufacturers. SF90, Temerario, Valhalla…all V8 turbo hybrid batteries. Sounds continue to minimize, electrical nannies do all the work, with hyper speeds too fast to appreciate.
3. Corporate purpose: $ over car passion and enthusiasm
4. Unobtanium for limited editions. The chase for these has gotten near impossible, needing near 9 figure income and lots of time to invest for the special edition cars.

 

Why do you feel you have to keep moving to different models? Find the one you love and keep it.

 

I live in the USA so I’m well aware of the limitations we have to test our 200 mph Italian dreams, Most weekends I
get to drive my brother in laws Lexus LC 500 it is a truly wonderful machine and I get as much attention and interest as I
get from my Ferrari’s, 100% bulletproof

 

Why Design Isn't Inherently Subjective, Only Partially So

Design, whether in graphics, architecture, or user interfaces, is often dismissed as a matter of personal taste—purely subjective. However, this view overlooks the field's foundational objectivity. While subjectivity plays a role in aesthetic preferences, design is not inherently subjective; it is only partially so, grounded in measurable principles, empirical evidence, and functional goals that transcend individual opinions. By examining design's objective core, we can understand why institutions like design schools and degrees exist, and how studying successful design history reveals patterns of effectiveness.

At its essence, design serves practical purposes: communication, usability, and problem-solving. Objective principles provide the framework for achieving these. For instance, alignment ensures visual coherence, hierarchy guides user attention, and contrast enhances readability—rules derived from cognitive psychology and visual perception, not whim. These elements, including balance, proportion, rhythm, and proximity, are taught universally because they yield predictable results. A misaligned layout confuses viewers objectively, as eye-tracking studies show, leading to higher bounce rates in digital design. Similarly, color theory isn't arbitrary; it's based on physiological responses, like blue evoking trust in branding. Design decisions often stem from data: A/B testing measures engagement, conversion rates quantify success, and accessibility standards (e.g., WCAG) enforce inclusivity through objective metrics.

This objectivity explains the proliferation of design education. Schools like Rhode Island School of Design or Parsons teach these principles not as opinions but as tools backed by research and history. Degrees formalize knowledge in human-centered design, where user testing provides empirical feedback, reducing reliance on subjectivity. Without objective foundations, design would be chaotic art; instead, curricula emphasize physics-based constraints (e.g., material limits in product design) and best practices from successful precedents.

Yet, design isn't wholly objective—subjectivity enters through cultural contexts, personal interpretations, and creative flair. What resonates emotionally in one audience may not in another, influenced by trends or biases. For example, minimalist design thrives in Western markets but may seem stark elsewhere. This partial subjectivity allows innovation, as designers infuse unique visions while adhering to objective rules.

Studying the history of successful design underscores this balance. Icons like Apple's iPhone or Bauhaus architecture succeeded not by subjectivity alone but through objective usability and efficiency, validated by market data and longevity. Failures, like New Coke's redesign, ignored objective user feedback, proving subjectivity unchecked leads to disaster

Ultimately, design's power lies in blending objectivity's reliability with subjectivity's spark. This hybrid nature justifies formal education: it equips creators to navigate both, producing work that's not just beautiful but effective. In a world demanding functional innovation, recognizing design's partial subjectivity elevates it from art to science-infused craft.

 

na V8 wailing at 9,000 rpm doesn’t sound good…I see why Ferrari went silent mode with newer cars as the next gen doesn’t care or have ears?

 

So, we are at page 16 and still debating.
Can you imagine going back to 1984 with the most well known Testarossa of all, and to see such divisive opinions, mostly leaning to the negative?
Back then, any new Ferrari was just awaited and acclaimed and instinctively desired for her beauty by basically anyone.
The car bodies were as beautiful as the most beautiful human bodies, with plenty of sinuous curves and some small surprise accents here and there, things that you could only appreciate in person and not in pictures like those barely visible edges along the top of the curved fenders.
Those cars were sexual objects, now they look like space ships.
But who prefers a space ship to a sexual object?
What a disgraced time to be a ferrarista.

Ciao,
Nic

 

F12 was still attributed to Pininfarina.

We all know who we need, the man who designed:

1. Ferrari 365GTB, popularly known as the Daytona
2. Ferrari 365 GT4 2+2
3. Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona
4. Ferrari P6 Berlinetta Speciale (concept car presaging the Berlinetta Boxer)
5. Ferrari 365 GT4 2+2 (the forerunner of the Ferrari 400 and Ferrari 412)
6. Ferrari 308 GTB
7. Ferrari 328
8. Ferrari 512 Berlinetta Boxer
9. Ferrari 288 GTO
10. Ferrari Testarossa (with Diego Ottina)
11. Ferrari Mondial
12. Ferrari 348
13. Ferrari 250 P5 Berlinetta Speciale
14. Alfa Romeo 33/2 Coupé Speciale
15. Ferrari Pinin
16. Lancia Gamma saloon
17. Ferrari Superamerica
18. Ferrari SP1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_Fioravanti_(engineer)

 

Luster - I am not sure.

But 'Identity' - YES.

IMO they have concentrated on stupid stuff, and let others pass them by,
such as McLaren, Lamborghini.

 

I'm (still) from the younger generation side, and while the Ferrari 849 Testarossa is far from being a car worth bleeding for, I wouldn't call it ugly.

Its main problem is that it's "just" another car.

For example, using the Testarossa name is confusing: The engine/powertrain is not unique, as it was the Testarossa (flat V12). They could have done a V12 PHEV like Lamborghini did. That would make more sense.

The rear end / door sills had so much potential for '80s design references. A missed opportunity for Ferrari.

I haven't heard the sound yet, but with current regulations and being an owner of a Montezemolo-era V12, I wouldn't put my hands on fire that it will be something to die for.

Nevertheless, Ferrari will likely sell them all with a healthy margin, so who are we to complain? They're being successful in their new recipe, even if we don't like it.

 

It worked well for Chris Gaines.