FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO DE LA CIUDAD DE MEXICO 2025.....Race..............▄▀▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▄▀▄▀▄▀

You did, some are still trying unfortunately

 

You are missing the basics my man. Let me put it in the simplest form possible. I'm happy to elaborate further if you have questions.

You have 4 contact patches of rubber in contact with the ground. That is all any car ever has.

When you lock a wheel, you now have 3 and 1 that is skipping over it and far smaller. You have less grip.

You go from decelerating to maintaining or increasing your speed depending on the scenario.

When you lock a wheel, you must release brake pressure to unlock it. This means you cannot maintain your rate of deceleration and will accelerate until you are able to apply pressure again without locking a wheel.

In this case you have the added negative of the skid plate ridding on top of the curb. This raises the car in the air some amount and decreases the size of each tire's contact patch with the ground since they are being unloaded. There is less load on each tire. The tire contact patch becomes smaller. You have less grip.

This is why Max is basically even with Ham and Charles at the beginning of the braking zone, but he accelerates away from them as he tries to brake on the curb - again, where Charles put him because he is smart.

If Max had no intention of making the turn, you would never have seen his left front lock up, he would have simply driven past the curb, braked hard before the grass, then sent it across.

So the notion that he was always going to do that is flawed. When he first popped on Charles, he was super far away from the curb - couple car widths. He would have drifted out on his own to maximize the radius, but he would not have straddled the curb since that unloads the suspension and makes it both impossible to threshold brake and also give the car significant steering input without spinning it.

 

But the rules say this is not what he has to do.

If and when the rules do say that, then yes absolutely for not doing it, drive through penalty or something.

I find it ludicrous for people to demand a penalty when a driver has followed the rules as they currently stand.

I think people should also watch the run up to turn 1 onboard with Max. He goes for an overtake on Leclerc, who had Hamilton boxed in, and Hamilton in turn was stuck behind Norris. Leclerc then opens up the door for Lewis, which then makes it 4 wide and Max is pushed onto the kerbs, where braking is limited and 1 tyre is on the dirt and unloaded.

You can clearly hear the car skating over the kerb which of course reduces contact and braking capability.

A penalty for essentially being pushed where he was is NUTS.

 

Highly doubt you are able to brake stradling the curbing. Rules of driving/racing.... When in doubt feet out, in a skid feet in. Watch the onboard he was trying to turn it in . WATCH THE ONBOARD. Everyone wants to be right all the time.jeez

 

You're arguing for someone to deliberately penalize himself further than he needs to according to the rules.

 

Charles put him out there.

LOL - no. An f1 car skidding high centered on the skid plate at those speeds is not slowing down. Especially not with the left front locked. There probably is also dust and crap out there as well - where Charles put him. Again, smart move by Charles.

Sure if people want to argue that, they can. Since you seem to have problems following this, I started in on you because of your ridiculous argument that only F1 drivers are qualified to opine. I'm glad to see you've abandoned that absurd argument. Although now you are on to misunderstanding the dynamics involved with Max's car.

 

Verstappen Lap 1 T1 With Overlay


Max's onboard INCLUDING overlays. Brake is binary so one or off. He doesn't let go off the brakes that's for sure. Zero throttle until it's to stabilize when on the grass. You can VERY clearly hear the car skidding out there, you can also very clearly see Leclerc/Lewis putting him there.

Lifting off/braking before that is out of the question unless you want an airplane crash to happen.

Tarmac runoff was cutting it very close to brake to a full stop and turn around if he wasn't allowed to touch the grass according to the brain trust on here.

 

You're looking at just the braking aspect.

You're forgetting the floor and the positioning of the floor in relation to an uneven surface where the floor plus the rear diffuser has lost all aspects of their primary intention-->to literally suck the car to the ground. Max or his car has lost downforce on the car and once Max makes a slight turn into the dirt and then the grass, Max is literally a passenger in the car AND AT THE SAME TIME NOT GIVING ANY THROTTLE as he is literally drifting in the grass and goes full opposite wheel lock to gain control of the car and point it in the right direction. Master control of an effed-up situation.

 

Exactly. Raised kerbs, both left tyres on very dirty surface, with the floor not having the downforce it should have now, and car not squating down properly and even. Majority of braking is on front axle, which is now unloaded on one side and dirty. With weight transfer etc, probably upwards of 75% of braking is down to the front tyres and one of those massively reduced...can't use full braking at this point either. He maybe had 20% braking at most available whilst he was on the kerb.

But yes lets pretend it was all done on purpose and despite no advantage gained, he must get additional penalties because....reasons.

 

Perfect. Thank you.

Clearly shows he was pushed out there.
You can hear the floor skipping on the serrations in the curb.
You can see the car is high centered as he cannot steer.
You see the left front lock up. The overlay is misleading since it is binary as you point out. If it had PSI, you would see it go high then him back it down to get the wheel spinning again.
Based on the onboard, there is no way I am going hard left to the tarmac...I'm doing the exact same thing Max did - 10/10 times.

The onboard also shows, once again, how great the outside camera operators are in F1. But their skill kills the actual appreciation the viewer should have of the insane speed at which everything happens in an F1 car. You watch the onboards and everything is a split second decision. From outside it looks like he has all the time in the world to figure it out.

I'd love to see Brundle sit next to Max, watch that on a big screen, and defend his position.

 

The corner and the other three drivers.

 

He hits the brakes (lock up) after being on the kerb for 1.9 seconds, the tyre regains grip - locking up stops, immediately heads for the grass and avoids the designated run off area. Simple really but you dont want to see it unfortunately. I strongly suggest you look at the footage in slow motion, the penny may drop.

Remember the earlier quote - put the spade down.

I'll trust the judgement of a F1 driver over your view any day.


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I think he would have if Charles hadn't pushed him out onto the curb; that's when things went bad. Up until that point he had a run on Ham and Charles.

Of course you never know. If I'm Charles, and I don't push him out on the curb, and Max does turn in, then I'm running him off the track because getting passed on the outside is both embarrassing and there is an excuse to do it - because Hamilton is on the inside. Of course, Charles ended up in the grass too - although he made a hard left to do that because he was going to have no angle to get around turn 2 without getting passed by both Mercs ; )

Why is no one raving about Charles!? ; )

 

Sweet. Make sure to let the Stewards know also.

In case you haven't noticed - there are no F1 drivers here, but there are people with extensive racing experience. You can learn something from them, or you can try to win an argument without any actual knowledge of what you are talking about.

Watch the onboard. Once he was on the curb, he had very little control over the car for the reasons I pointed out. It's obvious even to an inexperienced driver. Can't slow down, can't steer. You can hear the car skipping on the curb, and you can see Charles push him out there.

Why did Charles go through the grass by the way once he had already made turn 1? Are you outraged about that? What about Brundle?

 

All 3 onboards overlayed - ham, charles, max. Plus offboard view at the end. You have to click "Watch on YouTube".

 

I really hope that you all are joking. A car can't accelerate while locked up unless there is power overcoming the tire friction. If you have a parked car and lock all the brakes. That car won't accelerate. You can wait there all day and pray. It won't move. In Max case, when a car is at speed and locks up it still slows down, not accelerate. It will decelerate. The lockup may decrease the "rate" of deceleration, but it is still decelerating. As a matter of fact, Max didn't even have to touch the brakes, just come off the gas and the car will decelerate because of the high drag. I can't believe I am explaining this.
Here is a task for you. Drive at 60mph, (you can do it on a sim) and apply the brakes, try to lock up. Let me know if you accelerate up to 80mph

 

Yeah, he shouldn't get a pass either. I don't really care too much because he's usually a very clean driver. Maybe that's why he's overlooked, I dunno.

 

Perhaps my first post was poorly worded, but I was referring to accelerating away from Charles and Ham - not in terms of gaining absolute speed. People think Max was on the gas to pull away, or off the brakes - neither of which is the case.

You don't need power, Max's car is already in motion. When the floor high centers, and the tire locks, you will not be able to slow down - which is why he *accelerated away from them* even though he had brake pressure on as shown in the onboard that Bas posted. Unfortunately, the telemetry is binary so you can't see him modulate the pressure, but hopefully you get the idea.

Not a great example and not what I said. Max isn't parked, he is already moving. Also, you cannot lock a brake on a normal street car with ABS, or a race car with ABS.

He accelerated away from Charles and Ham, it did not gain absolute speed.

In this case, he was slowing, then the curb got even higher, picked up the car by the floor(high centered) and he started to accelerate away from Charles, then he locked the left front which made it even worse. People think he was on the gas (or off the brake) going, "oh I will just stay on the gas or stay off the brak and cut through the grass muhaha!" No, he was hanging on for dear life and trying to slow down. He was not on the gas at all and was on the brake.

Coupled with this fact, is that the bouncing on the curb will disrupt the downforce to the floor, which will load and unload the suspension and therefore the tire contact patch with the ground. You can also see this in the onboard as he turns the steering wheel and nothing happens - because the tires have no ability to turn the car at the given speed and suspension loading - he is a passenger riding the curb.

Me neither. It's weird how agitated you are about it too. He wasn't on the gas at all - again, illustrating my point. People think he drove it out there, stayed on the gas or didn't brake, then slowed down after the curb and planned to cut the grass the entire time. That is not what the onboard shows.

As soon as he comes to the curb he is off the gas and braking and decelerating - until he high centers and locks the tire. You will also see that he is roughly even with Charles and decelerating at roughly the same speed - again until the car high centers. At this point, he *accelerates away* from Charles who is able to keep decelerating and begin turning.

You can't lock the brakes on a car with ABS. No where did I say he accelerated by an increase of 30% - as in your example. Relative to Charles and Ham he was accelerating away from them. This is why people here think it was deliberate. What I am trying to explain is that it was not deliberate and there was nothing more he could do because Charles pushed him out there.

 

FA's statements I posted aimed at given drivers and the FIA Race Control blind bats very much sums it up. Solution is simple speed bumps, cones and gravel. Choose........
Allowing idiocy on lap 1 is not good racing management. Even lap 1 should have limits!!! They can also narrow the straight as it approaches turn 1 200 meters early and prevent 5 wide 20 meters before turning.

 

If you must know, Leclerc went off track at T2 and did it once whereas Verstappen drove around the race track like a idiot hellbent on staying in touch with the top 4 untill he could get on the better tyre. The red mist descended on him and he lost the plot well before T1.

Do F1 cars have ABS - I thought driver aids like that where banned

C11.4.1 No braking system may be designed to prevent wheels from locking when the driver applies
pressure to the brake pedal.

Your theory on acceleration is laughable and perhaps you havent got your point across properly but dont blame others on this forum if you get challenged on it. there is copious amounts of plank material coming off his car, that is friction dust - friction = slowing down unless you have your foot planted on the gas.

Hanging on for dear life statement in post 468- So he was driving dangerously then?

Stop digging

As for Brundle - what about him, a commentator with a POV just like yours. Unfortunately you dont like that so he is a idiot .....OK. Run back to your little secret MV pals on PM messaging and regroup. I know what goes on

 

I'm sorry but can you please just point out where it says in the rules that once you've missed a corner, you should turn around and rejoin the track where you left?

Rule 33.3 says following:

Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not leave the track without a justifiable reason. Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and, for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not. Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. At the absolute discretion of the Race Director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he gained by leaving the track.

Seems to me Max has done exactly this according to the rules.

Why the want for the additional penalty?

 

Yet still, Max gave up any advantage gained. So whether he missed 1 corner or 11, is irrelevant.

He never claimed F1 cars had ABS. It was a direct reference to trying it himself, which he can't do because his road car has ABS.

As he himself says maybe he worded it poorly. For sure Max didn't have full retardation of the car available to him.

??????

If you truly knew what was going on, you'd know the last time a post was made there was July 22nd, and it's not an MV Pals group by a long shot. So this pathetic attempt as if it's some sort of coordinated attack has failed you miserably.[/QUOTE]

 

Additional penalty? - no. A penalty for repeated offences- yes.

The run off area is the safety area for cars that have outbraked themselves, i doubt it was laid for fun or a platform for MV to go cross country, according to you and others he was "hanging on for dear life" or car "couldnt brake properly"

B1.9.5 Sporting Regulations issue B 31st July 25
At no time may a Car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be
deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person.

Justifiable reason & every reasonable effort - in this instance at T1, no. Justified on the other excursions a few laps later - possiblly but he was already erratically so possibly warranted a race director intervention.

Lasting advantage - Yes - had he stayed on track he would have been in P7 at best, he came out in P4 = gained a lasting advantage.

 

[/QUOTE]

If you say so, looks like a co-ordinated attack bordering on personal insults to anyone who dares challenge the Max - . But carry on

ABS - I can see where he was going. Agreed.

Tony
PS - thats why i left the group

PPS - lets call it a day - its going nowhere - You have your POV, I have mine. Leave it at that.

 

Repeated offense now? Come on.

Max was pushed onto the kerb. Had he braked/lifted, that would be a manner thats eratic and dangerous. He'd likely cause a huge pile up instead.

If you say so, looks like a co-ordinated attack bordering on personal insults to anyone who dares challenge the Max - . But carry on

ABS - I can see where he was going. Agreed.

Tony
PS - thats why i left the group

PPS - lets call it a day - its going nowhere - You have your POV, I have mine. Leave it at that.[/QUOTE]

Very much in agreement. I'll add that we've had disagreements before but never had a personal problem with you.