360 360 Spider roof stuck half way. Dead pump motor?

Hi All

Was changing the rear roof/window gasket and I think maybe hydraulic pump has died? Any advice on where to find a guide to getting stuck roof back up/down? Better at home than on the road I suppose. Silver linings.

Currently the roof icon is lit when I turn the car on. When pressing the roof button it just beeps at me. I have tried to turning the battery off for 10 minutes.

Roof operation has always been slow since my ownership. Sometimes it would get too tired half way and needs a break before working again.

I recently had all 7 cylinders rebuilt by Top Hydraulics and new lines put in by the roof shop. I can see the reservoir is full of fluid.

I can hear the relay going click when pressing the button but no buzz. I tried to scan the capote module with thinkdiag but it couldn't access the module - unsure if this means something.

All help very much appreciated.
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I bet your best choice will be to use the manual procedure (in the Manual) to close it fully

 

Have you checked the larger roof fuse behind the LH seat? Sounds like the smaller one is ok if you can hear the relay clicking.

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A faulty pump may be drawing too much current and blowing the fuse.

 

Thanks Fred. I ended up doing that. Lucky I had it mostly up so I didn't need to disconnect the motor for the little side flaps. I didn't have an "R8 tool" so I levered the engine bay cylinders with just normal screwdriver instead. The Ferrari tool most certainly wasn't up for the job (as per what they said in the video).

 

Hi Ian, great point. I haven't actually checked that. Will do so shortly.

 

Checked and test the fuses on multimeter they were all good.

On the AP200 it gave me persistent "E2" error which someone else had talked about but they never wrote back back.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/360-spider-e2-fault-code.618691/

The roof ECU is allowing the windows to be moved down so it's not blocking the operation per se and I suspect the roof must be in one of 19 "extra positions" as per that PDF you posted in another thread.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/360-spider-roof-help-qavion-are-you-out-there.690864/

The top latch is closed even the mircoswitches says so.

E.vv/a r LH hook open = FALSE
E.vv/a r RH hook open = FALSE



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Sorry, no idea.

Same. We couldn't figure out what the logic was for roof closed. I'm assuming the roof is up now.

Not sure why you're getting a flaps open and flaps closed in the same state unless the roof is in transit. Same for the cover. Maybe focus on these switches?

 

Roof is up yup. Tried to shim e.vv/z to make it drivable without the beeps alas no love. I think needs the cylidner to move to lock it?

Getting to the other 4 microswitches seems like a fair bit of work.

Might go down the pump motor route first. My motor was getting weaker and weaker over the last 2 years.

Doesn't seem to be an expensive part shared with e46 but will have to figure out how to pull apart.

https://ebay.us/m/YQOtOW

I called a local guy in syndey who's familar with the pump. If he can do it I'll probably send it off.
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Hi Ian, Just so make absolute sure whereabouts is the relay that controls the pump? And if I needed to try power the pump do you have a diagram by chance? Thanks in advance

 

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Roof pump and relay "27Q" is hidden behind the driver's seat (RHD)

Roof wiring is a little complicated...
Roof switch and fuses (see lower middle of diagram for switch)...

https://www.dropbox.com/t/i0tFSr9Hc6yfFCzP

Roof relay in this diagram:

https://www.dropbox.com/t/34ta4vs0YSZXpQTH

I assume you can jumper the relay (socket) 27Q to make the pump run. I doubt anything will happen as the Roof ECU won't be activating the solenoids, but you should be able to hear the pump run. Socket pins 2 & 8.

 

Thanks so much! I've been reading all this for a many hours now. Sorry if it sounds silly I measured across 85 and 86 in the relay socket and didn't have any 12 volts, when I pressed the roof button.

I'll try and get to Jaycar tomorrow make a jumper to test the pump. I'm sure the relay was clicking before by maybe me manually lowering the roof has put it into a unknown state where it can't start...

 

I'm not sure is pin 85 is a ground wire or a power wire. The wiring diagrams are missing a few pages. If it's a ground, the ECU could be putting out anything. Can you do a continuity check between pin 85 and ground?

I suppose the ECU will not put out power or a ground until it sees the right signals. If you're opening the roof, there are 3 steps before the hydraulics start working. The flap switches have to have the right logic, the windows must be down, key on, engine lid closed, etc.

 

Yup I think just misunderstood how to probe. I checked pin 86 with the positive probe and had on my negative probe on a known ground. Alas, still nothing. I did find continuity between 85 and ground though.

I also checked the relay with a 12v power supply and gate was closing. I think the sound I had previous heard was much louder than that. Unsure if it was actually the relay. I orded a new bosch relay anyways, 0986332002. It was 30 bucks I thought why not.

 

I found the EDZ switch just needed a bit more leverage to activate than what I was willing to give initially.

This state diagram from Trent was super helpful

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/need-help-roof-wont-go-up.335288/page-18

Waiting for my beloved partner to come home and give me a hand to put the cover back up so I see if I can get to EFA.


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Thanks. I'll mark my diagram accordingly.

 

For future reference here's exactly where EFA, need to remove the cover panel. It's only a tiny bit away from being activated so I might and do it electrically but struggling with this annoying connector.
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Got it back to a happy state.

The connector was BMW slide down closed the microswitch where you pull towards the floor of the car.

Got EFA to close by running 12v to pins 9 and 10. Positive to pin 9 and negative to pin 10 will open the flaps (as drop them down). I first to used a power 12v that converted AC to but that didn't work. So instead used a clean 12V battery source.

I think this would a good alternative to disconnecting the flap wire as recommend by the owners manual. which then says take back to ferrari!!

In the error free state the pump still ran but was very weak. Decided to just electronically latch and call it day. Will investigate further when my bosch relay arrives.

Thanks for so much for all your help Ian.

 

I'm confused. Which plug is the one in your second photo with the strange latching system? Doesn't seem to match any of the plugs in my diagram.

The last photo looks like the bottom Roof ECU plug.

 

Yup that connector is Q4 connects to roof ecu.

 

Sorry I mean 4Q

 

This will probably sound a bit crazy, but if your pump motor runs but is slow and weak sounding, maybe your grounds are corroded. Aluminum body and copper wires equals galvanic corrosion, especially if your car has lived near the coast or in a damp location.

Check your grounds. Reseat them all, then try again.

 

But what is the second photo? It looks completely different to the bottom photo. The 8? wires seem to be clustered in the centre of a long plug.

Here are 3Q and 4Q

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Hi John, I will do, that makes of sense. We're lucky enough to live opposite the beach in Melbourne. I've read lots of your convertible articles and heat exchanger on the website. All super informative. That microswitch video with the front latch was very helpful in my understanding.

Hi John! make sense. Will double check. We're lucky enough to live opposite the beach here in (not so) sunny Melbourne, Australia. The car has lived it's live all around the coast of Australia. Bit like a backpacker. Your video with the latch showing microswitch operation was very helpful too thank you.

 

Hi Ian, Took a few more pics a little bit zoomed out too from behind the drivers seat. 100% it's 4Q. I took the original shot leaning into the car from the passenger door.
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ah... that explains what I am seeing. The wires going to the top pins are just squashed flat against the plug. It looked like the wires were all coming from the centre of the plug in the earlier pic.

Thanks.