Check engine light keeps coming on and staying on after every second start. If the battery cut off switch is activated.........and I wait 5+ minutes then turn battery on again then fire her up..........no check engine light. But as soon as I shut her down again (no matter how long its been up and running) and fire her up.......the light comes back on and stays on until I decide to shut the battery down again and start the cycle all over! There is no problems with drivability when the light comes on whatsoever. The car is currently at the dealer and they have changed the O2 sensor, cleaned all the grounds and put in a new ECU (still the problem persists) and now is waiting for an electrical harness to be flown out from Italy. The FNA rep has told my service manager that if the harness doesn't correct the problem then a Tech will fly out from FNA. And if he still can't figure out the gremlin, then they will fly people out from Italy. Obviously I am getting frustrated.......the thing has been in the shop going on 3 weeks now and the weather is starting to get really nice! I've searched the archives, but have not found anything similar to this problem. Again the car runs perfectly except the fact that the check engine light comes on every second start........consistently! The dealer has 3 techs working on and off on it and they are all scratching their heads.........they've never seen anything like this. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Sounds like they have a good handle on tracking down what it MAY be. I think the best insight might not be insight, but rather reflection. Look at the steps FNA is going to, to get your car back on the road. Gremlins love to hide in these cars, and Patience will be the best answer. Keep us posted.
I have had the same - SD2's have been used to clear the light but not rectify the issue. If the SD2 is attached what is the claimed reason why the error comes up?
With mine.........the SD2 shows no error codes..........but yet the "check engine light" still comes up every second start. What does your dealer say?
Something about "Serious misfire" on one bank at about 1200 rpm. I found the following reduced frequency of light showing: - waiting for CHECK OK to show before starting engine - tightening the fuel cap quite tightly - not letting the car idle for first few minutes (i.e. start driving straight away watching oil pressure until fully warmed up) - if the car is left alone for a longer period (at least 24 hours) there was less chance of light coming on. Understand that these steps are only prevention rather than cure but its a start! I also found that the light only came on for a random number (at least 10 - 15) starts and then if the car was left for at least 12 hours alone there was a chance of the light staying off. I ended up starting the engine with my fingers crossed. Does your light eventually not appear ever? You say yo had a new O2 sensor - the car has two and we swapped them (something about master/slave) and after a few light appearances it went off for about 6 months.
I tell you it's just ridiculous to spend near 200K on a car and have to worry about a light bulb. All that high tech computer crap is just more headache than it's worth. I know that doesn't help you out, but I guess I long for the old days. And to think it's only going to get worse. I mean a experience like this could sour a person on the whole car.......A light bulb malfunction! Good Luck.
You're right Rayman..........It definitely is frustrating. But I also know that once I get her back and take that first drive on a twisty road, all will have been forgotten. Similar to a woman!....LOL!!
Actually my gremlin is very consistent..........every 2nd start. It doesn't matter whether it has been sitting for 3 weeks or 3 minutes! We're swamping out the electrical harness next week.
Good old misfire detection I struggled with that too detection is mandated by OBD II to protect the cat misfire will cause unburned fuel to reach the cat and if burned there will destroy it detection in the 360 is done through a sensor that monitors a toothed wheel (flywheel) i.e. loss of torque will slow wheel momentarily variations in the speed of the teeth passing the sensor are detected and interpreted as misfire once a misfire threshold is exceeded the CEL comes on I could produce a misfire situation periodically under hard braking with a following cat overheating, i.e. slowdown light F claims that the 360 is sensitive to misfire detection errors Things get complicated since rough roads could cause sudden changes in load (torque needed) and therefore a similar movement change of the flywheel to what a misfire would cause to rule that out the ECU gets a road bed roughness signal from the ABS system (wheel rotation difference between front / rear) Net net its complicated however I believe the misfire CEL should go away after you switched off the engine - have you tried to warm the engine up for a few seconds and switch if off and re-start this would avoid misfire problems at startup caused by a cold engine you should be home free after that - bold guess
Hey KUZI, I suggest two options: # 1, traded in your car to a newer model # 2, the cheapest way, take the fuse out that made this engine light on
I can definitely feel with you having to go through such a scenario with my CS . It seems to be strange that the ECU does not show any error why did they change the O2 sensor if there wasnt a related error the ECU seems to be a good guess, so replacing it makes sense to me The engine ECU communicates with the dashboard (CEL light) through a communication bus (CAN bus), which makes it very hard to find any problems in that direction but it seems that if the ECU shows no error one would look at the other end the CEL light, i.e. the dashboard could be sick? - not sure if they can diagnose that feature or shut the dashboard on/off Since it occurs at every second startup I also would guess that it is caused during the shutdown cycle battery off (reset) start (no light) shutdown start (light) anyhow hope that you have your car back soon
Thanks Thomas...........Unfortunately I won't have it back for Cannon Beach this weekend..........so will have to take the Maranello
Sorry to say but 4re has not improved its electrical connectors since the 70's. Once there was an increase in electrical demands ala the 348 all hell broke loose. FNA IMO mostly fixes these cars by changing parts. The work diagnosis is rarely though of before seculation of what the problem may be. It took me over 1 year to find my electrical problem that turned out to be one pin on one wire. I had a work around so it was o.k. my car was never down. Interestingly, I knew of one car a TR that had a misfire that triggered the MIL. it got so far as to speculate on crankshaft out of round to trigger the misfire by italian master mechanics (car was in USA). After every part was replaced and 99% of the electrical too, FNA decided to replace the spark plug wires and the problem went away. One wire was marginal...that was it. For some reason they were unable to diagnose that.
Also, I'm not a 360 guy but in general a good shop may have a ECU breakout box. That is the tool used before we all got stupid and used the scantool (sd2). The wsm will tell you which is the pin out for the MIL. when the mil is on I would make sure on the breakout box that you really had an mil. Why? Well the way 4re's are wired it is not inconceivealbe that on your second start-up you are getting power to the mil from another "shorted" source totally independant from the ecus and its subsystems. After all the car seesm to run fine with the mil on and you have no error codes on the sd2 telling you the subsystems are o.k.. Also, if 4re is now thinking wiring harness they may be thinking a similar situation. You see since these cars harness are so badly made...it is just as possible to have wire from the wrong pin sticking into the lim pin as it is to have a bad connection in the harness to prevent the mil from coming on at all!
If what you say is true, and they show no error when testing with the SD2, Then in my opinion the problem must be internal to the engine management ECU or a poor ground or power connection for the ECU. If there was a poor connection, or bad sensor, that circuit would show as fault. I have seen cases poor power and ground connection to the engine management ecu that would cause such a fault with no trace of error. Best regards, Jim
Dr. Excellent Diagnosis!!..........The shop called me today and they found the problem without resorting to replacing the whole electrical harness. The problem lay in a bad connection in one of the wires. As explained to me....there are 8 wires in each harness connecting to each of the two oxygen sensors. One wire was not plugged in all the way...........when the tech pushed it in, it snapped into place............and now NO Check Engine Light!! My commendations to the RTGT for working hard to find the problem. Again excellent diagnosis...........I guess thats why they call you Dr. Ferrari I guess it was worth not having my spider for 3 weeks................I got a new O2 sensor, and two new updated ECUs.
Kuzi, Glad it is fixed. These are the same types of electrical problems seen it the 348's everyone complains about. Interestingly, I do not understand how this problem was heat independant yet was so reproducible i.e no mil on 1st start and mil on 2nd. I hope they got the problem. Have you also verified the mil comes on when the key is turned on? It comes on to verify the mil works then goes off upon start-up with no faults. Also, i have not played with an sd2 but I thought it had feedback to sensors so it could read a bad connection to the o2 sensors?
