The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Hey,

I got used to reading the same arguments told over and over. What is this?

I believe this thread is now officially dead!

Art S.

 

It's not dead, it's just that when people start rattling their legal sabers every time somebody dares to question what is being reported to be the gospel truth, or merely voicing their opinion, it just puts a big, heavy handed, wet blanket on the open discussion. The private mail and e-mails are still humming back and forth on this thread.

 

They are pretty cool. In a way they're the first McLaren F1. If the tail hadn't come off at Goodwood who's to say what might have been. If a real one came up I'd probably bid.

 

Too true . I think McLaren under Bruce would have become a Lotus or even maybe a Ferrari, a race car company maturing into making sportscars ...

He was an extremely talented man ... and a hoon

Pete's opinion

 

Hoon? BTW defaming dead people isn't a problem as they're dead it's impossible to for them to defend themselves. True.

 

Deflaming?, where I come from calling a racing driver a bit of a hoon is a compliment.

Unfortunately the term hoon now refers to people being silly on public roads, what I meant is that Bruce liked the power ... you know what I mean

It is either in your blood or not ... based on your collection, I think it is flowing well in you Jim

Pete's opinion

ps: There was a guy, Roger Freeth (hope I have spelt his last name right) who used to be Possum Bornes co driver in NZ/Australian rallies. Roger also raced a v8 powered Toyota Starlet (a tiny family car) that was a rocket, and scary bit of kit. Roger was also a professor of a University ... and even he could not understand the attraction to motor racing. Unforunately he died in a rally accident, and recently so did Possum ... they were both hoons, intelligent guys that loved nothing more than pushing that pedal to the metal!

Bruce was a qualified Engineer ... but his heart too was a hoon

 

Noun: A fast and spirited(reckless) driver

Depends on who's using the term, can be a compliment if coming from a fellow hoon, or it can be an attempt at an insult when coming from a member of the general public, so the phrase "you're just a bloody hoon" can have two meanings, however there is only one correct response to such a statement and that is "Too bloody right mate, and proud of it"

So IMO Bruce was a hoon, and from some of your tales Jim, you fit the definition as well

There was a recent article in NZ Classic car on the M6GT and it's fate I'll see if I can find it.

 

Every time I drive J6 I think about him. His spirit lives on in that one.

 

Some excerpts from the article in the March 2004 edition of NZ Classic Car (excellent magazine BTW).

… Phil Kerr’s recount of what happened to the car after Bruce’s accident

… And it's fate after that

Some webpages with more info are;
http://www.mathewscollection.com/mclaren/McLaren_M6GT.htm
http://www.mclaren.com/cgi-bin/frames?http://www.mclaren.com/features/2000/living_the_dream.htm

A beautiful car and IMO one that should really be driven on the road not languish in a collection, but that is the owners prerogative not anyone else’s, and I can only hope they enjoy it in whatever way pleases them most. Though I must say I prefer Jim's way of enjoying his collection

If the second David Prophet car were to emerge it would probably create the same “interest” as #0846, I can just imagine “M6GT_Replica” (sorry Paul) expounding that it wasn’t the real car (which I believe was converted to M7 specs and race as a sypder in later years), probably a Manta Montage replica :lol: Then the argument would go round an round until everyone got so dizzy they were no longer making sense. Sound familiar?

I don’t know why people can’t just enjoy a car for what it is, a beautiful piece of engineering art, rather than arguing semantics about things they have no real experience of, and the fate of which is largely unknown, even to those closely associated with the artwork in question. However the internet is full of “experts” who will offer an opinion masquerading as fact about almost any subject, so I suppose it’s not possible to avoid controversy no matter what the subject, it’s just a pity that such discussions often turn into acrimonious back biting without any possibility of resolution

For your enjoyment here are some pics of the piece of artwork known as OBH 500H, is that the (in)famous type 25 ZF gearbox I spy

 

Wow
That is one very cool piece of history! Thanks! If it ever comes up I will def. go after it. It's also a cousin of two of these.
Best

 

well, Arlie teed it up for me in the other thread (or was it this thread; I'm so confused), so I had to swing.

Arlie, don't hold out on us, where was the Constitution kept in WWII? I'm a trivia guy, so I'd like to know. Have you read "1001 Things Everyone should Know About American History" by Garraty? a good one . . .

 

posted by P4Replica

I learn stuff from this forum all the time; I don't have that Ferrarisima but I'll look out for it now. At Goodwood next weekend I'll also try to get some more old magazines from 1966-67; 0844 should be there too but Piper and 0900 probably won't be.


Paul M

 

Paul.
If you don't happen to have Ferrarissima #2 (also from the original series), that is another one that is worth looking out for. It contains a 26 page article on the P4 (including a brief history of its predecessors), by Paolo Marasca. Sort of a pre-amble to his 330/P4 book - and contains a load of similar large colour photos of #0860.
Look out for a red dust jacket with a photo of #0860's scuttle area, with the fuel filler cap open ....

 

Just checked the books - BOTH #2 and #4 are from the 'NEW' series of Ferrarissima.
Ferrarissima #2 was published in 1997 and #4 in 1998. Good Luck ....

 

At Le Mans the Filipinetti car, 0848, had chromed or polished rims, looking at the pictures in the Prunet book.


Paul M

 

Paul.
I'll refrain from any sarcastic comment about 'getting your eyes tested' (for colour-blindness, this time), but if you're referring to the colour photo on page 231 (and the 1:18 scale illustration on page 232), you've got to agree that they are light blue - with possibly a hint of metallic. Leastways, that's how it looks in my copy of 'Prunet' !

 

I intend to, Carbon – at YOUR expense for a change !

 

First one is a bit of a leg-pull (with a bit of factual stuff, and the odd ‘dig’, thrown in for good measure !)

Tell me Carbon. Who does your web page artwork layouts for FML ? I dunno. Hopeless ! Take a look at the top header bar of the home page. Of ALL the pictures of REAL Ferrari P4’s available, to you - what do you go and pick ? A photo of a P4 Replica ! Yup ! That’s a NORWOOD P4 replica – in fact the 1st of the series of 8 aluminium bodied cars, built for the late Joe Marchetti in 1989. The car was featured in R&T Exotic Cars Quarterly, Fall 1990, and that same photo is in there as a two page spread. It was also produced as a poster, and can be found HERE on the web.

You’re not the only one to have been fooled, however. The #5 livery was obviously copied from David Piper’s #0900 (itself a replica), as it first appeared in 1974, in red, carrying similarly placed #5’s and decals, with an intention to flatter and deceive. Here are a few other images that show it captioned as a real P3/4:
A photo by Edward Hattersley
Another by Tom Hiett
and a painting by Lynn Masters !

Which all goes to show, that you can’t always believe everything that you read on the Internet !

Repeat after me: “I Carbon McCoy, cannot tell the difference between a real P4 and a replica” ! LOL

 

0844 and 0848 at Le Mans 1967. Blueish rims I suppose.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Hey, Carbon.
Remember when we were ‘sparring’ back around page 14 of the ‘#0846 Poll’ thread ? In post #261, you wrote:

I replied in post #266 with

I assumed (wrongly) that you meant that you’d be wearing a ‘T’ or Polo shirt with a ‘Prancing Horse’ on the chest (like thousands of others of people there). What I didn’t realise back then was that you had it tattooed on your chest ! I’ve just seen your photo in your ‘Ladies & Gentlemen’ (Tojeiro MG) thread (last one in the group of 17).

Well Heck, now I’m gonna say it ! ‘Defamatory’ or not ….

Carbon - IMHO, not only are you one sick puppy, but Man - you are REAL DAMNED UGLY too. LOL !

 

Boudewijn.
BOTH of these photos you have posted are from the Le Mans TEST DAYS in April, 1967 - NOT the race.
Scanned, I believe from Auto Passion* #133, page 73. N'est-ce pas ?

Carbon.
Note the different race number set-up on #0844 - White #25's on Black roundels, compared to your 1:18 model.

Paul - FYI*
If you haven't got copies of the French magazine Auto Passion (issues #113; #130 and #133), I suggest you get hold of them. They contained a series of articles on the 'P' Series, starting in issue #113, which also includes a glorious colour cutaway of #0858 by Jean-Jacques Francois. Issues #130 and #133 cover the P3; P4 and 412P's. Alternatively, I have ALL the pages from these three articles scanned (in hi-resolution) if you want to drop me a friendly email sometime ....

 

Skeet... He who speaks too soon makes himself look like an ass...

i started working here May 4th of this year; the current website design you see for The Ferrari Market Letter has been up since October, 2001...

We work almost around the clock, diligently and continuously upgrading, revising and improving the site... The design you currently see at the top of the homepage was done by our former hosting company who, our present hosting company says, "must have had a crack party the night before" they designed the website...

i'm glad you feel spunky enough to criticize a website you know nothing about; the website for a company you also seem to know nothing about... You hang in there, though, Skeet... Don't you worry, i'm confident that one day, you too will grow up and be something akin to mature. Take care...

 

re: your website design...

don't you love the way with computer consultants, they current one smacks down the previous one??

I never even let 'em in, unless the IT makes me!!! LOL

 

Boudewijn.
That's an interesting photo. Not seen it before. Where does it come from ? If you have a higher resolution scanned version of it, please could I ask you to email it to me ? [email protected]

Interesting - the two 'customer entry' 412P's arriving together. But where from ? Possibly from their preparation by the 'Works' at Modena ? One can only assume that is #0856 (the Ecurie Francorchamps entered 'factory' P4, race #24) under the red tarpaulin on the bottom deck ....