360 Engine Out - so it begins. | Page 10 | FerrariChat

360 Engine Out - so it begins.

Discussion in '360/430' started by FlyingHaggisRacing, Feb 11, 2016.

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  1. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    Question ! ! !

    The 2 idler pulleys ( 1 for the lower part of the AC belt and the other on the Alt/water pump belt.

    I don;t see any definition in the WSM for what degree of "touch" they should have with the belt.

    Is it they just 'kiss' the belt, or more that they are properly applying a small force to the belt.

    Advice please.
     
  2. Keith360

    Keith360 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2015
    570
    Santa Barbara County
    Full Name:
    Keith Williams
    I have the same question, when I purchased my Spider Feb 2015, part of the deal was a 30K service at 12K actual and all the belts were changed. When I recently changed all the fluids I spied that these rollers were not in the game. They are backed off about a 1/2 inch. I adjusted them in to about an 1/8 inch. They are pretty small bearings so my guess is they will correct some amount of belt slap to prevent the belt from coming off if a looseness occurres. I don't think I want them spinning all the time when the engine is running.
     
  3. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    #228 FlyingHaggisRacing, Jul 4, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    did you buy the flywheel from them outright or you sent them an OEM for rebuilt and nodification?


     
  5. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
  6. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    #231 FlyingHaggisRacing, Jul 5, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Flywheel
    Weighed the old vs new flywheels....5kg vs 4kg respectively.
    All fitted.
    The new 6 bolt ring gear was a bit of an interference fit to the clutch housing, but went on in the end.


    ***********
    Silicon hoses
    I measured the metal outlets as being 44mm OD

    Tried 45mm, but clearly that would leak.
    so for Europe the next size is 40mm - which is a bit too tight.

    In USA, you guys have 1"5/8ths which is about 41-42mm,
    so I purchased some and it fits just fine.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    Variator Solenoids
    All tested, as per WSM 12v battery and listen for the click (more like clunk) sound.
     
  8. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    @Keith360 & Belt Idler Bearings

    After some thought I going with your view on this.
    They are to have a small amount of space between them and the belt.

    Still not found anything documented, so my thinking came from...

    . The brackets clearly could not hold the bearing against the belt with any tension reliably.

    . 348, 355 have something like this (different places).

    . gut feel that your answer is the right one.
     
  9. Keith360

    Keith360 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2015
    570
    Santa Barbara County
    Full Name:
    Keith Williams
    👍👍👍
     
  10. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    BAD NEWS

    I found the cause of my original problem.


    Today I did a full pressure test of the water system.
    Took a bit to get the various pipes blocked off and a set of gauges and valve rigged up.
    So now i can pressure test just about anything.


    So what did I find....
    I could hear a leak, just assumed one of the jubilee clips wasn't tight enough and went in search of it.

    The sound was coming out of the exhaust port on cylinder @2. (the one that had water).

    I put my finger in to see if i could feel anything, and immediately felt a jet of air on my finger.

    So what I found (felt) was a tiny pin hole.
    Where did I find it....
    On the floor of the exhaust port on the left chamber just at the knee of the port as it turns downwards towards the valve.

    I have no idea what could have caused it - any ideas ?

    Also I just don't see it possible or wise to weld it.
     
  11. 67bmer

    67bmer Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 28, 2015
    1,197
    MD
    porosity in the sand casting. that really sucks!

    There might be some polymer/epoxy fillers that could fix it. you might be stuck buying a new head from a wreck. should be able to transfer all your cams, valves, springs, etc. probably want to do new guides and seat the valves. or buy a complete one and just re-seat the valves.
     
  12. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    Funny thing.... on ebay there are a 5 LH heads listed but only 1 RH head.

    If I was paranoid (and i am) i think there was some meaning to that.
     
  13. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 1, 2012
    3,253
    New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Glen
    Quick blob of weld and you're done. I have a small block race engine with alum heads that have been welded a couple of times. No problems.
     
  14. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    576
    North east, USA
    +1 on welding the heads. I do have faith in epoxy technologies but the aluminum is so easy to weld why do anything else.
     
  15. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    You guys are giving me hope on the welding - Getting at it may be the issue.

    I'll use the borescope to see if I can get a decent picture of the area.
     
  16. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Sep 1, 2013
    1,753
    Western Mass
    Full Name:
    Raimondo
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Sep 1, 2013
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    Raimondo


    I would send the head out to a good machinist or welder for this one. I'm good at getting stuff to stick together, but I would personally want this job done once. My welding especially for aluminum alloys is not terrific. That's me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  18. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Sep 1, 2013
    1,753
    Western Mass
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    Raimondo
    I checked a bunch of salvage places on line and none had the rh head, including eBay. Even if available you are looking at close to 4k USD for an unknown used part that very well may need some attention.

    Ok don't know if you have tig available (I have to borrow). I Just don't have enough need to justify purchase.

    Check this out:

    http://muggyweld.com/aluminum-welding

    I'm thinking the 5, would better withstand higher temps in the exhaust port. melting point of rod is 600F. May work despite being in exhaust port, because this is a water jacket and should be cooled by coolant.

    Even if u don't use it for this particular application may come in handy. 60 bucks for a bunch of rods and flux.

    I have used a product similar to 1 (no flux) and successfully sealed a couple of hairline cracks in cast aluminum. Just had to be meticulously clean. If I knew about the 5 I think that would have been my choice.

    Forgive me if u already know about this stuff, or if it's not applicable.

    You get tons of credit for tackling this job!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    @360 -Many thanks for that .
    I have something like this ( I think of it more like brazing than welding ).

    May be luck is with me, my new neighbour at the storage (aka workshop) moved his 2 classic cars in due to seeing me working there.

    He was there last night when i did the pressure test and came over to see what had caused a grown man to cry like a child or was it the loud swearing - not sure but it got his attention.

    Turns out he owns a R&D Design company that does hi-tech fancy welding of Ally.
    i'll give him a call and see what can be done.


    My biggest worry, even if this pin hole is filled, is will others appear?
     
  20. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 1, 2012
    3,253
    New Zealand
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    Glen
    Getting at it is not an issue. No pictures required. Get the head off and weld it. You have done great work but we told you to pressure test at the start.
     
  21. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    Didn't have the equipment at the start, and the odds were more inclined to a head gasket.
     
  22. stevecomp

    stevecomp Formula Junior

    Mar 1, 2013
    743
    South Australia
    Full Name:
    Steve
    I think I have a head if you need it 👍
     
  23. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Sep 1, 2013
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    Raimondo

    What are the odds an alloy welding specialist moves in.

    After thinking on the low Temp welding stuff, that's a pretty harsh environment in that exhaust port, not robust enough anyway.

    Good point about future problems. Don't know the cost but perhaps X-ray eval will detect problem areas. Here's a link, sounds liked his is exactly what they do. they do repairs along with diagnosis.

    http://www.yxlon.com/Applications/Cast-parts/Engine-blocks-and-cylinder-heads

    From the circumstantial evidence of no RH heads on the market, perhaps you are correct is this a more common problem than we realize. Perhaps one of pros will chime in on that one. If so would the cost be reasonable enough to check both sides, or even a new (uses) head.


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  24. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    @Steve
    let me speak to you on the head via email.
     
  25. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 1, 2013
    1,753
    Western Mass
    Full Name:
    Raimondo
    Did u consider x-Ray eval? Even a good used head could have potential to inflict nasty if your assumption about that right head is correct.


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