Countach starter sticks. A few questions...

Most certainly the starter needs to come out and be rebuilt. The engine doesn't need to come out but a few things need to come off first. It's a job that I've been through a few times. Make sure the heat shield is there and gets put back properly. The starter lives in a very hostile place.

How've you been Gene? It's been a few years since I saw you and your lovely wife at Cavalino.
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I have zero experience with Lamborghini starters, but was wondering if the solenoid is mounted to the starter. A common mod on hot rods is to use a Ford starter solenoid that can be mounted somewhere away from hot header pipes. My boat, which runs a big block Chevrolet also uses this setup. Not sure if this would/could apply or not, but I thought I'd throw that out there...

BTW, I once had a starter stick "on" which wasn't fun

 

Both my TR and my CT do that, in each case the solenoid is fine, but the circuit which engages it has too much resistance when it gets hot due to age and the number of connectors the circuit has to jump through.

On the weekend I fixed the TR by adding a relay whereby the signal wire which engages the solenoid is diverted to a relay. When the relay circuit closes when the key is turned, the relay circuit simply connects the 12v+ on the side of the starter motor to the solenoid. A healthy, full 12v results and the starter motor catches instantly.

On the TR it was an easy job to safely locate a solenoid in the rear, away from the worst heat. I suspect you could tap into the 12v+ from the alternator and try the same thing with the CT.

FWIW, my CT is just slow to engage the starter, the TR would not start until it cooled down.

 

My distributors issues started with the same symptoms. I got the same car as you do.
The starter needs a rebuild more likely. Even if it does not you should do it since you'll go thru a lot of labor.
Engine dont come out, only the exhaust manifold. Its easier on the DD
It appears that my lower coil pickup was bad and that slowly destroyed the starter. Something to do with that coil pickup and starter interaction. Real mechanics here can surely explain the details better. I am saying what was described to me when the job got done.
There is a link here somewhere about my issue.
A bad lower coil pickup left unchanged will do your rebuilt starter quickly. That one reason why I went all electronic.
Regardless that is a pretty penny job for a starter rebuild..

 

The G*^@$#@m starter! It's gotta be the weakest links on a Countach.

Mine has been rebuilt, removed again for another rebuild. AND, twice since it was done a year ago, I've had the dreadful click. After 2 or 3 clicks it engages and starts.
Side draft: one carb side and manifold have to come out. It takes quite sometime.
I think I may buy some wrap and try to work it in there for extra protection.

Why can't someone come up with a fix and relocate it
Chad was working on something BUT I think it would require getting into the test monkey's motor. For gearing I believe.

 

Somewhere on here, or the other site, someone photographed where the ground points are. Which was a VERY helpful thing to do.

 

I would also check there is no overload on the ignition switch and that the wiring is connected properly, that is no one has accidentally pulled the wiring loose.
That can be a common reason it goes 'click' as there is a heat overload on that switch.

Worth checking first

Regards

Paul

 

In the land of hope, it could be your battery. No kidding. My car started doing the delay part. Turn the key, and nothing would happen until a second latter. I thought my ignition switch, ground, or another starter. I checked the battery, it was around 12.04 volts. So I kept on looking. That's 12 volts right? I went through all of the connections, found nothing. My friends at the local electrical shop (called Acme, just like the cartoons) told me to ditch the battery. That fixed it. Paranoia of being broke down got me to rebuild the alternator as well, to be on the safe side. The delay went completely away. The old battery is still good, well enough for another old car but not powerful enough for the Countach.

I did put a starter in mine a few years ago as well. Yours will be a little easier because it's a dd. I had to pull the left side carbs, the exhaust off & the left header. The left axle had to come off as well. I used the moment for a little upgrade & ceramic coated the headers & installed one of Emilios Ansa exhaust systems. The starter itself cost me under $200 for the rebuild (shop mentioned earlier Acme did it).

Check your battery, it needs to have 12.4 volts minimum.

 

I posted photos and locations of the ground points over on the other site. I think if I post the link here, this site will truncate it, but I'll give it a go:

http://www.**********.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=47578&view=findpost&p=980081

Mike

 

My 1984 did the same thing after a complete engine rebuild.
During this rebuild Evans automotive install a heavy duty solenoid and oversized the wiring to it. Shortly after I got the car back it started acting up, I questioned George and he said check the obvious areas, battery and grounds. I purchased a brand new high amp battery cleaned everything up and still the same problem. Spoke with George again and he said that in some cases he found that the actual ignition switch created this problem. I was a bit skeptical however I decided to change it out. I have never had a problem since. Just my first hand account I hope it may help. Sincerely Vic

 

Starter problems are typical in all Countach's. I agree with all the previous posts about cleaning grounds, tightening connections, etc. But you only the best rebuilder in this process, and instruct them to re solder each and every connection on the armature. That is where the continual problems are. Easy to install new brushes, soleniod, install it in the car, and a year later or less, the problem returns. The location of the starter in proximity to the headers allows the starter to really get sauteed where it resides from the exhaust heat, and therefore melting the solder connections, or making connections bad, such as "cold joints'. After complete resolder, the starter will give you plenty of trouble free operation.
Gary Bobileff

 

Too many make-believe cooks here . Rebuilding the starter (with a new solenoid) is the main fix. Of course checking and cleaning/tightening all related connections (including the ignition switch) is part of the job. Don't ignore the ground strap between engine and chassis and make sure the surfaces are clean when you bolt up the rebuilt starter to the bellhousing. You're fortunate that it's a DD, no need to remove the carbs. Not too bad a job actually but who ever does it will learn a few new vocabulary words before it's done. If it's done right and the starter is rebuilt by a competent shop (nothing fancy about that big Bosch starter) you should get a few decades of (more or less) reliable starts. Adding new relays and wiring without fixing the main problem doesn't get you there and is more to fail later. No need to re-engineer something that usually works fine.

Things are pretty good here, Thanks Gene.

The only way that a distributor/coil problem could damage a starter is by making you crank the engine too much (and wear it out) trying to get it started. They are completely unrelated systems.

EDIT: Looks like Gary beat me to it.

 

I've definitely had a bad battery trick me into thinking I had starter problems before...

 

Just to clarify, if you have a starter with weak soldering joints, you will experience numerous 'clicks' of the key to crank to the starter, with negative results, then, the next attempt everything's fine. Golly, you just hit a strong solder joint on the starter armature to have the starter work fine. Capiche?
Gary Bobileff

 

i had the starter rebuilt in early 2010, but after six months it gave some problems. I added an external booster solenoid (50 euro with labor included) and everything works well still today.

A starter rebuilt works, but just for some time as, as Bobileff says, it's too hot as too close to exhaust headers.

So, my opinion, better just add an external solenoid or you have to rebuilt the starter every two years...

I show here a scheme, it works perfectly and it's on my car too, but remember you use it at your own risk as it's not a factory OEM standard (this warning is written just in compliance of USA laws).

We talked a lot on Lambo Power forum about this issue.

ciao
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Once you get it working correctly, a starter heat sheild should help prolong the life. Pretty easy to install, just throw it around the starter it and tighten the clamps up.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=BK_7353961_0361176923

 

Can that be slipped onto the Countachs'? I kinda like it.

 

Countach already has a starter heat shield: i think it's better to install an open hi flow exhaust that can reduce a bit headers temperatures as well as a good fuel/air mixture (check the carbs tuning).

Catalized cars (may be in the USA you still have some) are a disaster for starter solenoid.

ciao

 

Peter, it is open ended, looks like a small blanket. Just wrap it around and put the clamps on it, you can trim if needed. Easier than trying to wrap it a million times with 2" wrap and try to get the clamps in the right spot. Should fit anything, Summit has several options as well.