5000QV Electrical Schematics | FerrariChat

5000QV Electrical Schematics

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by Jalpa_Mike, Jun 19, 2013.

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  1. Jalpa_Mike

    Jalpa_Mike F1 Rookie

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    #1 Jalpa_Mike, Jun 19, 2013
    Hi guys,

    Thought I'd give you all a heads up on a great new site. Jason Jones (owner of bullstuff.com) Has started a blog on the restoration of his 1986 5000QV.

    One thing that Jason has done is collect all kinds of electrical data from myself, Chad, George Evans and John Kar (Australia). And put together a fantastic set of blueprints, drawings, schmatics, whatever you want to call them of the electrical system on the 5000QV.

    As I'm sure everyone is aware, the only electrical schematics we've ever been able to find for these cars are the 25th anniversary and a very rudimentary schematic of the early 5000 S cars. Both of which carried no information whatsoever on the Bosch fuel injection system as used on the USA cars.

    Jason was kind enough to take my very early sketches in PowerPoint of left rear electrical box on the 5000QV and convert them into a much easier to read format. He also got an entire wiring harness from Chad, laid the thing out on the floor in painstakingly traced each wire to it's destination and where it came from To check and doublecheck the information that he was getting from all of us.

    The results speak for themselves. The 5000QV owners now have wiring schematics for the box behind the the left rear trunk panel, the box that's behind the right-hand air filter, a complete description and schmatic of the little GSM KR 25 unit and the ECU boxes behind the trunks Right-side panel.

    As Jason says in his blog, this is a living breathing document, so as people discover more information (or find errors) he will update these wiring schematics so that everybody's got the most current version.

    Years ago I was lucky enough to get a wiring schematic from Joe Nastasi who got it from Lamborghini that showed a schematic of the box behind the left panel in the trunk. This was instrumental in me being able to rebuild my box last year. Jason's new version is not only color but way more easier to read!!! As I stated earlier, he took my Powerpoint wiring diagram, completely updated it and checked it against his new wiring harness.

    As most of you know, Lamborghini changed these boxes over the course of the production run. For example: Raymond, myself and Jason all have boxes in the left rear trunk that were made of plastic. These warped from the heat put out by the relays and fuses. Later in the production run, Lamborghini scrapped these plastic boxes in favor of the metal ones that ran through the end of production of the 25th anniversay models. Jason takes these changes into account on his schematics so both folks with the plastic boxes and the newer metal boxes are both covered. :)

    This blog will also be updated by Jason on a regular basis is he completely rebuilds his 1986 5000QV (12025) that he bought.

    I'm sure next on Jason's list will be to make a nice wiring schematic of the main fuse and relay boxes up underneath the glove box. I've already sent him a PowerPoint that I did that shows all the fuses and the wire colors that come in and out of the fusebox, as well as the relays, so I would say its already in work. :)

    Check it out and enjoy!!!

    Lambostuff/Bullstuff Lamborghini LP5000 Quatrovalve Countach Restoration


    Mike
     
  2. blown daytona

    blown daytona Formula 3

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    #2 blown daytona, Jun 20, 2013
    WOW!!! Jackpot!!! I only clicked on one page and it is incredible!!!! Thanks
     
  3. EarlyCat

    EarlyCat Moderator
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    #3 EarlyCat, Jun 20, 2013
    That is a great find. It sure shortens the learning curve for the rest of us.
     
  4. BlueBiturbo

    BlueBiturbo F1 Rookie

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    #4 BlueBiturbo, Jun 20, 2013
    THANK YOU
     
  5. islandguy

    islandguy Formula 3
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    #5 islandguy, Jun 22, 2013
    Great stuff guys...!
     
  6. deangpsx8

    deangpsx8 Formula Junior

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    #6 deangpsx8, Jun 22, 2013
    wow great work!
     
  7. ferraribooks

    ferraribooks Formula Junior

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    #7 ferraribooks, Jun 22, 2013
    Amazing,

    Jason must have found that elusive extra hour in the day to find time to write this stuff, family - business and this, job well done
     
  8. jollygood

    jollygood Formula 3

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    #8 jollygood, Jun 22, 2013
    This is the most amazing post and link I've read here in 8 years!
    Is Jason here as well? Very well done indeed! Thanks for posting!
     
  9. Jalpa_Mike

    Jalpa_Mike F1 Rookie

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    #9 Jalpa_Mike, Jun 22, 2013
    He lurks here. He told me that he has had some bad experiences in the past with the "other" boards.

    Yes, I agree. It was so nice to have someone undertake the challange of turning years of chicken scratches into something that all Countach 5000QV F.I. owners can use. Its only taken 28 years since first '85 5000QV rolled off the line! Hopefully it will save owners a ton of time in the future.

    Like Jason told me, there are some errors that he has fixed, and as time goes on I'm sure we'll all find more. For example, the schematic that I got from Joe Nastasi had one relay wired backwards and a couple of wire colors did not match what I had (or anyone else for that matter). :)

    You figure with only about 610 QV's built (and how many of those were F.I.), there are bound to be some different color wires, etc.

    However, one thing is for sure.... what we have now is better than what we've had for the last 28 years! LOL!!!

    Mike
     
  10. deangpsx8

    deangpsx8 Formula Junior

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    #10 deangpsx8, Jun 22, 2013
    And the question is...how many QV were FI?

    Does anyone know?
     
  11. jollygood

    jollygood Formula 3

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    #11 jollygood, Jun 23, 2013


    I believe that was discussed here earlier, not very long ago.
    About 50% of them I think. Correct me if I am wrong!
     
  12. leexj

    leexj Rookie

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    #12 leexj, Jun 23, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Cool site but I have a question. I was looking at the link that shows a problem with his throwout bearing. He says the TO bearing and PP disengage the clutch by pulling on the throwout bearing which pulls on the PP fingers? I searched and found an exploded view:

    I apologize as I don't know how to embed the image where I want it so I can comment on it below the image.

    Anyways, when I first saw the Countach PP and TO bearing attached three thoughts entered my head, one, it reminded me of a 911 clutch and two, since the TO is always attached to the PP, it's always rotating so I hope it's a long lasting TO bearing. On other cars, if the clutch is adjusted correctly (there is the correct amount of play), the TO bearing only spins when the clutch pedal is pushed although as the clutch wears, the PP's fingers go farther out and might contact the TO bearing which is why you should always keep your clutch adjusted. Three, is that they use a diaphragm type PP. It used to be that they used diaphragm PPs on lower horsepower cars and PPs with several what look like valve springs around the PP and usually only have three fingers which are adjustable. Obviously, this is no longer the case.

    Yes hydraulic clutch actuator systems theoretically are self adjusting but I had to adjust mine on an RX-7 as there wasn't any play and I'm not in any hurry to install clutch #7 or more as I always install a new clutch when I install a new engine so I kind of lost count.

    I've noted that on a lot of threads folks mention how much life they get out of their clutches and it seems pretty short although if I were driving a Countach, the clutch would get a serious workout and I'm sure owners do the same thing. On the site that is on this thread, the owner mentioned he got 23K miles out of his clutch which seems pretty decent considering it's a Countach. I know someone that has a Geo something or other and he's on his original clutch at over 70k miles. Again, consider the car and how it's driven.

    Back to the question, what is the expected life span of a Countach clutch, PP and TO bearing?

    I think Joe Sackey's Miura book mentions that the Miura uses a Porsche gear set, does the Countach as well, provided my memory is correct and the Miura really does use a Porsche gear set?

    Thank you for any answers.
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  13. Jalpa_Mike

    Jalpa_Mike F1 Rookie

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    #13 Jalpa_Mike, Jun 23, 2013
    Lee:

    A year or so ago, I spoke to a technician at Fitchel & Sachs. He told me that the Countach shared a very similar clutch with the Porsche 930 Turbo. However, they had different part numbers and were in fact slightly different. He said that the office where he worked " back in the day", used to keep a Countach Release Bearing on a shelf like a piece of gold when they found out that Lamborghini was charging about $6000 for it.

    To make the release bearing last longer, folks like Bill (GT Car Parts), take the bearings apart and replace the old steel bearings with ceramic bearings. According to Bill, it makes the bearing last much longer, not to mention a heck of a lot cheaper!!! I believe Bill charges about $200 - $300 to rebuild the release bearing. Other places like Clutch Masters are capable of rebuilding the pressure plate. The one item I recommend OEM for sure, is the disc. Sure, it costs about $400 for Bill @ GT Car Parts, but it lasts much longer and is thicker than a disc that was rebuilt.

    The part picture that you posted is also from a LP400 & 5000S Countach and not the 5000QV or 25th. The early Countach release bearing is notorious for breaking, it was a very bad design.

    Mike
     
  14. vaholtorf

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    #14 vaholtorf, Jun 23, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
    When the fork (#10), pulls on the release bearing, the bearing spins. If properly adjusted there is a little play between the fingers and a thrust washer clipped to the back of the bearing, and the bearing will stop spinning after the pedal is released. We just did one of these on a 1989 Anni. The weak link is the small diameter spring wire/spring clip that holds it all together. Many shops take this apart, inadvertantly bending the wire/clip a little getting it out of the groove, and then reassemble using the old wire/spring clip. Then later, after the car is back on the road, the wire clip pops off and the whole job has to be done again. And nobody knows why, and certainly the shop that did the work won't admit, or might not even know, about the clip. And it is always Lamborghini's fault! My shop machines larger, stronger spring clips, and machines the thrust washer and bearing race to accept the new spring clip, fixing the problem. Other shops have other approaches that work too.

    Having said all that, the reason for early clutch failure is operator-caused. The design, with idle in 1st gear being too fast for parking speeds or dip/sharp-grade crossings, forces operators to slip the clutch as the only way to slow the car down to a speed they are confortable with to park or go through a dip or up a steep grade so as not to crunch the spoiler. That is why Countach clutches go. Some operators, like me, pre-think the drive before taking a Countach and make sure there will be no really slow speed requirements before deciding to take a Countach (or Diablo for that matter). Know where you are parking first. Know there aren't any sharp inclines, etc. It is kind of a pain, but it is part of the ownership process if you want to save your clutches. Back to the design: The weak spring clip is not made to be reused, and many shops try to reuse it, which can cause premature failure. So in conclusion, the car's design is bad because it does not allow the operator to maneuver the car at slow speeds to parrallel park, go up grades carefully, etc. without slipping the clutch. And the clutch is designed poorly as it is not made to service without lots of new parts used. Add in to the mix shops that don't know Contachs, and you have the makings of a bad clutch reputation.
     
  15. randomlambo

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    #15 randomlambo, Sep 25, 2013
    Hi guys,

    Are there any resources for the LP400(S) electrical diagram, especially for the engine bay?

    Thank you.
     
  16. gurslo

    gurslo Formula 3

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    #16 gurslo, Sep 25, 2013
    Kudos to everyone who helps with documenting these cars and helping EVERYONE else.
    Hats off to you guys.
     
  17. Chadbourn Bolles

    Chadbourn Bolles Formula Junior
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    #17 Chadbourn Bolles, Sep 25, 2013
    I have factory wire diagram for car with 2 distributors.
    Chadbourn Bolles
    803 532 6257
    803 798 3044 cell (maybe)
    email: [email protected]
     
  18. EarlyCat

    EarlyCat Moderator
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    #18 EarlyCat, Dec 18, 2013
    a little bump for this restoration
     
  19. LamboRider

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    #19 LamboRider, Jun 9, 2014
    Awesome work!
     
  20. islandguy

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    #20 islandguy, Jun 25, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Found a great source for relays
    Texas Industrial Electric: relays continuous duty 12 volt & 24 volt DC power relays,starter relays
    Talk to Sherrie
    No affiliation other than being a happy customer.

    0332-019-151 (supersedes 0332-014-151)
    0332-209-150 (supersedes 0332-204-150)
    0332-209-151 (supersedes 0332-204-151)

    $9.75 ea . Received in two days

    I have yet to find a direct replacement for the Italamec fuel pump relay (S in the book). This is essentially a 0332-019-151 with a fuse on the top. Hella makes one but I don’t trust their parts. The KAE fuel pump timer relay 3.304.100 cross reference # is 12 63 1 277 245, popular on BMW’s, about $35 on ebay. Next on the list is the Italamec 70A 384

    Larry
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  21. Olivier NAMECHE

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    #21 Olivier NAMECHE, Jun 25, 2014
  22. Jalpa_Mike

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    #22 Jalpa_Mike, Jul 16, 2014
    Here is an update. Jason has come across technical bulletins from the factory dealing with the 5000QV, 25th Anniversary and LM002. First time I've ever seen these.

    The more digging we all do, the more stuff like this comes to light.

    Some of the great info from the factory deals with the "Run On" issue a lot of folks had with the 5000QV (myself included!!), Torque specs, etc...

    Here is the link to the .PDF:

    http://www.bullstuff.com/uploads/Countach/Service%20bulletins%20for%20Countach%20and%20LM002.pdf

    Mike
     
  23. jollygood

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    #23 jollygood, Jul 16, 2014


    This is really interesting stuff. Thanks for posting it.
    There should be more but maybe not easily available!
     
  24. blown daytona

    blown daytona Formula 3

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    #24 blown daytona, Jul 17, 2014
    Great stuff Mike!!! Thanks for updating us. I own an auto repair facility, and I have never seen such a poor selection of technical information, from any auto manufacturer, as the before Audi Lambos. I get a chuckle when I see a hand written diagram on a TSB.
     

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