02 Sensors | FerrariChat

02 Sensors

Discussion in '348/355' started by Mick Merivel-Dixon, Jul 23, 2006.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Mick Merivel-Dixon

    Mick Merivel-Dixon Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Beverly Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Mick Merivel
    Where's the least expensive place to by Bosch O2 sensors for my F355 Spider? I bought one at Ferrari for $200+. I need 2 fronts (13309) and one more rear (13280).
     
  2. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    May 21, 2005
    Messages:
    72,740
    Location:
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    $18 each on eBay for the superior non-Bosch 348 and 355 front O2 sensors. 3 wire ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/O2-OXYGEN-SENSOR-BECKARNLEY-SG66-FERRARI-PENDING-APPLIC_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33557QQihZ019QQitemZ8051483806QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V ) and 4 wire versions are there (my 348 Spider uses two of the 4 wire O2 sensors).

    $70 or less for the Bosch "generic" O2 sensors at places like RockAuto.com ( http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1103780,parttype,5132 ), AutoZone, etc.

    Typically less than $160 each for the model-specific Bosch O2 sensors (use these if you don't want to cut/crimp some wires).
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. KJB355

    KJB355 Karting

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    154
    Location:
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Kenneth Brom
    I strongly suggest two options:

    1. Search the internet for reasonable prices on the 13309 and 13280 that is specified for your F355. WorldPac and SSF are good places to start. They are import specialists.

    2. If, in the end, you're still looking for some dollar savings, use the Bosch universal sensors, they use the correct family of thimble ceramic and heater element, plus they supply the best connector assembly and maintain the factory connector.

    I can't stress the importance of this component to a Motronic fuel system, the Beck Arnley product listed is non-OEM product, and at best, a shot in the dark as to the equivalency to the OEM design that is needed. Futhermore, they are open body designs that allow moisture to enter the unit.
     
  4. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    May 21, 2005
    Messages:
    72,740
    Location:
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Good points. Of course, the other side of the open body design is that you get better performance and gas mileage because the sensor reacts faster. But no, the open body design isn't going to last as long as a Bosch O2 sensor.
     
  5. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Messages:
    18,045
    Location:
    USA
    I will advise that No Doubt should be doubted here ;) ....as he is listing the part numbers and prices for a 348 spider, not a 355 spider...Here are the correct ones for the 355 spider (5.2) http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1314823,parttype,5132 I note that the "generic" Bosch part number and be "froogled" and I see prices as low as $69 online...I would imagine there may be additional savings even on the Bosch "355 specific" O2 sensor if one were to search a bit more...

    I am unsure of what the exact difference are between the two part numbers...but I would recommend getting the ones specifically for the 355 application.
     
  6. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ Sponsor Owner

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    16,451
    Location:
    Winston Salem, NC
    Cable length and connector pin outs are two differences that come to mind immediately. I can check later, but I strongly suspect they have different internals b/c the 355 has a pre-cat measurement and a post-cat measurement.

    It's important to note, the 355 is not simply a "gussied up" 348. What works on the 348 is not likely to bolt onto a 355 and vice versa. A few body panels are interchangeable; a few bolts and crush washers fit both cars, etc. etc. They are however, different beasts. Sometimes I'm just as guilty as anyone else in assuming the cars are the same. They are not.
     
  7. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    May 21, 2005
    Messages:
    72,740
    Location:
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Ha! Tough crowd.

    Good points, though. O2 sensors may be as different as spark plugs when you get down to internals. I wasn't very clear above, but yes, you should get the right O2 sensors for your model car.

    There are plenty of differently priced options, though. You don't have to pay $268 each for OEM O2 sensors from Ferrari NA...unless you want to pay it, of course.
     
  8. KJB355

    KJB355 Karting

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    154
    Location:
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Kenneth Brom
    I don't mean to make this crowd any tougher, but I have to challenge this point that the open body design is responsible for these benefits, and prevent any misunderstanding.

    These sensors are what is called 'thimble type' because the ceramic probe behind the protective cap is shaped much like a thimble and it also contains the heating element. The sensor reaction that provides the intended performance and subsequent fuel economy is a function of the heating element (a sensor must reach an operation temperature before it will generate a signal), ceramic formula and in some cases the protective cap design. The laser welded, submersible body of the Bosch sensor not only eliminates contaminates from entering the sensor body and element, but ensures a fresh outside source of oxygen as a reference through the wires.

    An O2 sensor can merely provide the intended performance as it's part in the fuel system design, and therefore replacing a worn sensor will simply restore that performance. There is not an O2 sensor which will give you better performance, along the lines of say replacing a copper core spark plug with a platinum.
     
  9. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    May 21, 2005
    Messages:
    72,740
    Location:
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Kenneth, I thought the way that you do above for quite some time, But FChatter WolfTalk bench tested O2 sensors of various makes and showed otherwise.

    Here's what he said:
    as a recent experiment, I installed one of these in my '89 328:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/O2-OXYGEN-SENSOR-BECKARNLEY-SG45-FERRARI-328-GTB-V8-3-2_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33557QQihZ019QQitemZ8051482057QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

    it works as expected. I also monitored the output for a while, and it's fine.

    bench testing the original sensor showed that it seemed to want to stick around .6-.7V periodically, possibly due to crud accumulation from misfiring cylinder #7 (bad plug wire). Heating the tip red hot seemed to get rid of that habit, but the sensor wasn't capable of outputting more than about .9V. The el-cheapo replacement sensor easily swung from almost 0V to 1V.

    I soldered the new sensor wires instead of using the crimp connectors for added reliability.

    disconnecting the o2 sensor and watching the output open loop was also interesting. The original sensor was outputting around .65V, and the new sensor was more like .53V. With original sensor, hesitation on acceleration from stop occured periodically. That's gone.

    Both sensors showed that open loop, when revving the car to around 2500 (no load), the output dropped to .2-.3V ... lean.


    You can find his comments here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=135937840&postcount=12
     
  10. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Messages:
    18,045
    Location:
    USA
    No Doubt, your rebuttle is not really valid, as KJB355 is stating there are not significant "improvements" between one O2 sensor and a competitive one (they all basically do the same thing). What Wolftalk is showing (proving) is that his original O2 sensor was bad (or failing) and his new one is working correctly (restored performance, did not enhance or improve it). Wolftalk makes no mention of gas mileage improvement or faster reaction of the O2 sensor either.
     
  11. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Messages:
    18,045
    Location:
    USA
    BTW the part numbers you have listed are for the 1995 2.7 motronic 355. The 1996 to 1999 355 Bosch part numbers are different, front is 13819 and rear is 13820. You probably got those part numbers from the Bosch parts lookup, and it is wrong. They mistakenly have all 1995 to 1997 355's listed as 2.7 motronic with all the wrong part numbers. Whenever looking up a Bosch part for a 1996 or 1997 355 on any website, input a 1998 or 1999 as all the parts houses use the incorrect info from Bosch. I learned this a year or two ago.
     

Share This Page