0862/P5

RM are auctioning 0862 in Jan. The catalogue clearly claims that 0862 was:

"lent (By Ferrari) to Pininfarina where it became the 250 P5 show car"

at a later time:

"the show car body was removed and the chassis returned to Ferrari."

What do you think? There is no question that P5 nor Replica P5 wasn't built on 0846 but is this possible?

 

Jim
See attached 3 page article by Christian Huet.
Marcel Massini
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"lent (By Ferrari) to Pininfarina where it became the 250 P5 show car" "the show car body was removed and the chassis returned to Ferrari."
_______

Certainly rolls off the tongue easy as pie & in this day and age, unlikely they'd make such a statement without having some basis in truth.

Other than being a Ferrari "P-" - P5 has no relationship to 0846.

tifosiron has the October '95 issue of Hemmings Sport's & Exotic Car - anybody else?
Post #10 - http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71632

 

Thanks so much for this and for the photo of 0846 at the Targa.
In light of this and light of measurements and photo's of Replica P5's chassis
why does Barchetta still list "P5" as anything but a replica and list "P5" as being built on 0846's chassis?

As an aside it's interesting to note that 0846's 67 body tail is not 0846's 66 body tail modified. Note number of slots at rear side even though both have same side door shut line/tail front side tail bottom (P3) line. As wheel base changed 12mm 1966 to 1967 a modified P4 tail fits easier. 0858's spyder tail is working/fitting quite well.
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Note 8 slots 66, 7 slots 67.

Best
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IMHO, to deflect attention from their very own car built around a tach needle.

 

The October 2005 (not 1995) issue of Hemmings Sports and Exotic Car magazine has the article about the P5.

I really doubt the accuracy of RM Auction's statment that the P5 chassis was used for the car they have in the January auction in Scottsdale. Why would a show car chassis be converted to a race car chassis? Why would you build a body around an existing wheelbase?

 

Read the article Marcel posted. RM is correct.

 

Napolis, thank you.

I did read the article, I do not know of Christian Huet. Why would he be more authoritative than Ludgivsen?

 

Christian Huet has written the Dino 206 S Berlinetta and Spider book in the Cavalleria series (a.o.).

 

So Huet has more knowledge and is more authoritative than Ludgivsen? I don't know, I am just asking.

I am sure someone has anyone asked one of the Pininfarina people that were around at that time? What was their reply? Ludgivsen is quoting them in his article.

 

Ron

What exactly are you trying to find out? Exactly what did Ludgivsen say that makes you feel 0862 was not used by pf to build and later deconstruct P5 exactly as described by Huet?

 

I guarantee you that Christian Huet is MUCH more knowledgeable about Ferraris than Ludvigsen.
Marcel Massini

 

If Marcel guarantee's something you can take it to the bank.

Best

 

I've always wondered what the story was with the P5 that turned up in red, as well as ivory, and even as an Alfa Romeo!

Thanks for posting the story Marcel.

 

Here's a pic of the P5 in white.
Marcel Massini
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Napolis:
I put the magazine in storage, so today I do not have it in front of me. I do not recall that Ludvigsen made any reference to the P5 and 0862 being one in the same.

What he did state was that Enzo Ferrari allowed Pininfarina to take the body off from the P5, and place it on the shortened wheelbase Alfa Romeo show car. He also stated that the P5 chassis then stayed at Pininfarina even after Fioravanti left, this according to Fioravanti himself. For that reason, I do not see the correlation between the P5 and the 212E that RM Auctions is advertising for their Scottsdale auction, other than the chassis is a duplicate, but not one in the same. As I read the Huet article, and forgive me if I misread, the inference is that the P5 chassis actually became the 212E.

If the 212E is really the P5 chassis, then it deserves to be restored to its original form as the P5. I do not think beyond a reasonable doubt that it is the same. The RM catalog contained within the new Sports Car Market states that the P5 chassis "was the basis" for the 212E. What does that mean?

Just my humble opinion. Thank you.

 

Here are a few pix showing 0862 in various configurations.
Photos #1 and #2 were taken at the 13 March 1968 XXXVIII Geneva motor show on the Pininfarina stand.
Photo #3 is from the Cesana-Sestriere hillclimb in Italy 3 August 1969.
Photo #4 is from the Trento-Bondone hillclimb in Italy 13 July 1969.
Photo #5 was taken in 1969 at the Modena Aerautodromo during testing.
Color Photos #6 and #7 were taken December 1970 in the factory race departement in Maranello, following the annual Ferrari press conference.
ALL PHOTOS COPYRIGHT MARCEL MASSINI
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Interesting. IMO RM is unequivocally stating that the car they are selling was once P5. IMO they must be basing that claim on the Huet article. The thing that I believe is beyond the shadow of any doubt is that neither P5 nor Japan P5 is/was built on the chassis remains of 0846 as for some bizarre reason Barchetta still claims.

 

http://www.glickenhaus.com/jim/project.pdf

Pages 1-8 contain the Ludvigsen article and touch on this issue and pages 103-107 contain Winston Goodfellow's article which is also interesting.

Hopefully this will be resolved before the auction as Winston's article is definitely at odds with Huet's.

 

Christian Huet is the world expert on Bucciali and Gordini. His recent book on Buccilai is superb!

 

So it appears that no one really knows what has become of the original chassis of the P5.

Anyone know a good medium?

 

Question: Is there any verification that anyone viewed the P5, when it was the P5, actually running and being driven?

 

wow.... i have a lot of new reading to do !!!! sheesh!!!

 

That part everyone agrees on. P5 was never a running vehicle. P5's engine and gear box were not the engine and gearbox that wound up in 0862 as per everyone.

This is a question of chassis. I suspect/hope it will be resolved before the auction.