1909 Bleriot | FerrariChat

1909 Bleriot

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by tazandjan, Jul 18, 2009.

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  1. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ Lifetime Rossa Owner

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    Though there might be a few who would enjoy this.
    Taz
    Terry Phillips

    It was my honor to fly this original 1909 Bleriot this week. It is the oldest flying airplane in the country, second oldest in the world. Its sister ship was the first airplane to cross the English Channel, also in 1909.

    It has an original Anzani engine, which has been powering it for 100 years. Since it has no flying instruments, I have no idea how fast it flies, but would guess something around 30 mph.

    It uses wing warping for roll control, which is marginally effective at such slow speeds. The rudder is small, but produces adequate yaw, albeit somewhat delayed after control input. Pitch control is similar to modern light airplanes when flown at absolute minimum speeds.

    The 35 hp engine starts and runs well, but having only three cylinders fires every 240 degrees of rotation, which is to say it is not the smoothest. Who knows how much horsepower it still produces?

    There are neither brakes nor any way to steer it effectively on the ground, so wing walkers are necessary.

    It barely makes enough speed to takeoff, and with its highly cambered airfoil seems to levitate as much as fly. In flight it feels like I imagine a butterfly would, affected by the slightest wind change. The margin between stall and level flight is only a couple of knots. Drag is very high, so it descends quickly with either less than full power or minor excess pitch. It lands nicely, but with little control at such minimal speeds.

    Built just six years after the Wright brothers first flew, it is an amazing accomplishment for Louis Bleriot to have flown across the English Channel in an identical airplane. Sitting in its wicker seat, surrounded by an incredible century of history and patina, and flying with the same sense of anticipation of the unknown as Louis Bleriot, was humbling and an honor.

    Hugh
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  2. 4re Nut

    4re Nut F1 World Champ

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  3. teak360

    teak360 F1 World Champ

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    That truly is an honor. Do you have a picture of you piloting?
     
  4. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    That is so beyond cool. I am in awe.
    Thanks so much for sharing this incredible experience.
     
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ Lifetime Rossa Owner

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    Steve, Scott, Russ- Was definitely not me flying it, but whoever Hugh is. 2000 hours of flying fighters with virtually no light aircraft time and no pilot's license leave me very unqualified to fly this museum piece.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  6. Jedi

    Jedi Moderator Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

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    ... hoping someone was shooting video on your flight :D
     
  7. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy Lifetime Rossa Owner

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  8. Jedi

    Jedi Moderator Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

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  9. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    +1!!!!
     
  10. aseweepay

    aseweepay Formula Junior

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    Old Rhinebeck is an awesome place to visit during the summer if you can make it....all kinds of neat stuff flying there....
     
  11. Aedo

    Aedo F1 Rookie

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    WOW! Too cool! My first scratch built model was a Bleriot 1909 (at age ~11ish) :cool:
     
  12. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran Consultant

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    After reading Terry's accounts of the need for correct techniques to fly different jets only awakened my witnessing this need many times when heavy horsepower pilots assume that they can "handle anything" and then get into something like a Cub and prang it. Flying a Bleriot with warping wings can be just as deadly as mishandling an F-86 if you don't know what you are doing and don't fly the airplane LIKE IT WANTS TO FLY. Wing warping is roll control by changing the angle of incidence on the outer wing. When you are at low speed and drop a wing the natural instinct is to give it " opposite aileron" but in a wing warper all you do is to increase the angle of incidence in the lower wing and simply stall it thus allowing you to do a nice cartwheel along the strip.
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  13. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 World Champ Silver Subscribed

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    Great story, great video. Old aircraft have the much the same fascination for me as Vintage autos.

    I built one of these as well when very young; it was a plastic kit.
     
  14. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ Lifetime Rossa Owner

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    Note on the video the Bleriot was rolling almost uncontrollably to the right at touch-down. Luckily at the 28 knot landing speed vs the 30 knot cruising speed, not too much gets damaged.

    Like my friend Fred Murrin says about take-offs and landings of his replica prototype Fokker Triplane (F.I 102/17), powered by an original 120 hp LeRhone 9Jbs (iron pistons 110 hp, aluminum pistons 120 hp)- There are no crosswind aerodrome operations. That is why early aerodromes were usually rectangularly shaped, so you could always take off and land into the wind.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  15. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran Consultant

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    I just remembered a documentary that was made to record a reenactment of Louis Bleriot's cross Channel flight. It was to be made by his grandson, I think, who tried to learn to fly just for this event. The footage of his dual instruction in a Cub was painful to watch because he wasn't what one could call a pilot. After many jerky and clumsy attempts to handle the Cub he was soloed and allowed to fly the Bleriot replica for the commemorative flight. His take off was barely acceptable but after climbing a bit the airplane went into a nose down right turn and crashed into a lake without too much damage to the plane or pilot. When they played the footage from a nose-mounted camera trained to look aft at the pilot, one could see in the background that he had held right full rudder the entire time and rode the airplane in without a clue as to what happened or why. As he sat in the water with the mangled airplane he threw his hands up in disgust as if to blame that dumb airplane. My wife thought I had gone nuts when I started yelling " Left Rudder, Left Rudder !" as I watched him sit there "head up and locked."
    I would love to have flown that but I had the wrong name.
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  16. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 World Champ Silver Subscribed

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    I noticed, and couldn't see the end of the landing because of the buildings. I guess that in 1909, you carried your own fix-it kit.

    When did moveable aileron surfaces replace wing warping?
     
  17. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ Lifetime Rossa Owner

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    Scott- They coexisted in WW-1 until late 1916, with the Fokker and Pfalz Eindeckers (E.I-E.IV monoplanes) being close to the last holdouts. Ailerons were in wide use by 1915 and universal by early 1917.

    We are working on internal wing warping of contemporary aircraft as we speak, but do not expect to see it anytime soon. Great for stealth, but hard to implement.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  18. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran Consultant

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    Yes, landing and taking off into the wind. In 1967 at the Abottsford Airshow Bob Cansdale tried to fly his Sopwith Pup according to the prescribed directions , ie. parallel to the show line and the wind was crossed enough to cause a ground loop. No damage but thereafter he flew the Pup into the wind like they did in WW1 when they operated out of a circular or rectangular base with flags and socks. Another thing that should be noticed is the aft weighted tail that could dig the tailskid in to track straight and stop quicker. Put a wheel back there on a smooth concrete surface and you will have a very busy rollout. I've been there.
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  19. Crawler

    Crawler F1 Veteran

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