2017 F12

Any indication as to what the changes will be for next year? A facelift alongside the FF? Power increase?

 

Doubt a power increase as they were only able to wring 39 additional HP out of the upgraded engine in ( and likely to be unique t) the TDF. Perhaps an HGTE type handling/suspension upgrade??

 

HGTE and shedding off some weight would be a huge progress.

 

If it's an F12 "M", power increase, new suspension, the same brakes as the LaF, Speciale, 488 and TdF, new face, SSC2 etc. that's usually how it goes. They extracted 800 PS and 860 PS from that V12 in the LaF and the FXX-K, so why not an increase over the TdF? Ferrari always leaves something on the table, and when many said the power could not be increased above the GTO and the Enzo as it would either hurt the brand or the customers who bought those cars, Ferrari did exactly that - and delivered in spades with a 740 PS car that were 1.9 second faster tan the Enzo and 1 second faster than the GTO around Fiorano.

The interesting question is. Will it be an even madder N/A V12, or will they go with forced induction, or hybrid.

 

so why not an increase over the TdF?

Just because the F12 is near of the limits with this concept of central front engine !

 

And that was what people said 15 years ago as well. ESC/ABS/TC systems get better, tyres get better, suspension gets better, engine design evolve and people want more every time.

They will find a way.

 

Because they had the electric motors to fill in the consequential torque gaps. The tdf is as far as this V12 will go in a road car and if they could have possibly extracted more, they would have.

 

Unless they go with forced induction.....

 

I am definitely not convinced of that. As you know, there was a many month long somewhat bitter campaign by LE owners to not have the F12 lightweight have a significant HP increase. Would have too much perceived loyalty damage with existing collections was the main battle cry.

They left some out of that motor/diff design as a result and not just in output HP. For instance, it only has two positions for the variable trumpets instead of infinite. The next iteration will have this. The 39 HP gain is so small when you figure intake, exhaust, ECU tune should have got there alone. Ferrari makes the best V12 engines in the world and I trust they can hit 800+ with a 6.3L if there was a market for it.

 

my bet is HGTE package... and probably new wheels to go with it. etc...
I would agree no increase in power but maybe faster shifting with the HGTE package...

 

hmm..so 730 HP is NOT enough? I can't even get to full throttle in 1st or 2nd gear in my f12 without feeling the TC, with TC off, I imagine it will just shred those "Puny" 315's in the rear....The car is traction, not power limited.

 

Maybe next will be mid engined back ?

 

I believe that the TDF shed a good bit of weight with carbon fiber doors as well as body panels.
Perhaps the F12 replacement will use carbon fiber to a similar degree.
I'll bet that some of the other intake tuning tricks with also trickle down.
Perhaps the F12 replacement will be a little bit smaller, say two inches, and feature the engine a bit lower, and borrow the TDFs rear steering to make her a little more nimble on the track.

 

The car is not only traction limited, maybe in 1st and 2nd gear.

On the track with hot tires you could clearly put down way more power than it has.

The tdf has up to 6% shorter gear ratios and more power and less weight ...

My wish list for an F12 daily driver and a couple of track days a year:
1. sportier suspension, i.e. less body roll
2. less weight, i.e. -200 pounds but still having a nice interior
3. better sound without aftermarket exhaust
4. bigger fuel tank or better mpg when driving slowly in the city etc.
5. more ooomph, i.e. more power and shorter gear ratios for 3rd - 6th
6. more aggressive setup, i.e. more camber etc.

 

I think some lements of your dreams are unrealistic and contradictory. For example you won't get 200lbs less weight, a bigger fuel tank and a nice interior. To take 200lbs out of the basic car they really had to be radical with the TDF, it has a reality very stripped out interior and that will not be copied in a production car.

 

+1

And hopefully they'll stay NA for at least 1 more car. More power is definitely not needed, but they will do in any case.

 

Sure, it is not easy nor cheap to achieve -200lbs.
But after all, it is my wish list

I think the F12M could easily be 2-3" shorter, the roof and other panels could be made out of carbon or at least GRP/GFRP.

-100lbs would be nice and achievable.

Afterall, the F12 is already an amazing daily driver

 

+1 at some point more power isn't the answer. Need a really grippy 4wd drive car ala 918 or Veyron to exploit over 700 hp properly. Even on a track, more power won't necessarily make the F12 quicker.

 

FXXK is RWD with 1050hp and less weight.

Sure the 1190lbs downforce at 124mph help.

 

F12 is a GT car not a race car.

It weighs 4000+ lbs full of fluids/fuel.

Even the tdF is no lightweight at 240 lbs lighter.

They both may be under-tired; for example the new Mustang GT350R has 305 section FRONT and 315 section REAR Michelin Sport Cup 2 tires - more rubber overall than both. And of course the cost is a drop in the bucket comparatively...

Not saying the F12 and tdF are not spectacular cars, just that they are not all about performance, they are also about how they make the driver feel and about style points.

Best.

 

Not saying the F12 and tdF are not spectacular cars, just that they are not all about performance, they are also about how they make the driver feel and about style points.

Best.[/QUOTE]

+1...and then some!!!

 

I think they might go to FF-style AWD to put more power down. My dealer says it will be forced induction, and that the last NA V-12. Go figure.

Aren't there any spy pics or renderings yet? I haven't seen anything, does anyone know?

 

+1...and then some!!![/QUOTE]

Driving is an experience in total .. Ferrari is not always the absolute fastest, but it's the most joyful ... and damn fast.

 

Agreed, except in this case they are also THE fastest production Ferraris ever made!

F12 is officially Ferrari's flagship front-midengined V12 Sports car. The Cali is offered as Ferrari's GT effort.

 

Right you are.

They likely won't go with the AWD system for the sports car- that belongs to the GT side.

I'm hearing mixed things about turbo for the F12 update. I am hearing the replacement WILL be turbo...