2020 PUs?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/renault-f1-technology-must-be-distinct-to-formula-e-882731/

Why should the FIA mandate what PUs to use? It surely didn't cut costs so why don't just give complete freedom and let the best configuration win? Fully electric, hybrid, ice only, hydrogen, whatever! That I want to see!

 

FIA mandates PUs because they are afraid that one manufacture could come up with something so outstanding that they would dominate the series for a long time

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Oh wait !

 

Yep, but that's complete utopia.

 

Mercedes dominance damaging F1 - Horner

Red Bull team boss Christian Horner thinks that Mercedes' dominance is damaging Formula 1 and believes new owners Liberty Media will not let it continue.

The Silver Arrows have subjugated the sport since the introduction of the V6 hybrid era in 2014, winning 51 of the 59 races that have followed. Speaking to The Guardian, Horner insists that change is needed.

"It’s unpalatable to think of it for another three years," Horner insisted. "The new owners of F1 know very much about putting on a great show and there being good and healthy competition. That can’t be artificially done obviously but I would be surprised if they were prepared to allow total dominance like the last three years."

The new regulations that will be in play this season were partly drafted in to help the other teams catch up or even surpass Mercedes. However, it seems that Mercedes are top of the pecking order once again.

"Mercedes dominating again would be bad for the sport," Horner continued. "But how you prevent it from happening I don’t know. It would be wrong to artificially slow someone down. We have just got to work hard to put them under pressure."

source: https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/223584/mercedes-dominance-damaging-f1-horner

 

Yes Christian ..but its ok if RBR should dominate things again, such as not that long ago ?

 

Domination isn't wrong when it's deserved.

If a team is doing a better job than the others, why shouldn't they ripe the benefit of their effort?

I just cannot understand what Christian Horner is sore about...

 

Can't be bothered to go into detail AGAIN on this, but it's so much different.

Mercedes is in a completely different league to the rest and for very different reasons. They build a very good car but also have by far the best engine which no one (for the first year) was allowed to compete against by upgrading their power unit. By the time they could upgrade their engine to 2015 spec, Mercedes had a years worth real data in their hands about what worked and what didn't. By the time tokens where allowed to be used in-season, it again was set up wrong. Mess up something and reverting back to old spec? Yes you can, but you still lose the tokens. Sometimes an upgrade would seem it didn't work, and it needed more tokens spend elsewhere to make it work, but you wouldn't know...

Props to mercedes for building the best engine, absolutely. But not allowing the rest to compete was utter, utter BS and handed them the championships. It was farcical at best.

For Red Bull, all things where more or less equal. Their Renault engine actually had less power than both Ferrari and Mercedes, but they kept designing the better car, but not by much. Webber was a very competent driver but when he'd be fighting for 3rd place, it was Vettel that was able to work the car best and winning many races. You can't fault a team for employing the best driver.

 

agree with this......again!

 

Surely the token rules were not written without anyone knowing.

It has been said that the other engine manufacturers accepted the rules, so why is Mercedes pilloried for being successful?

If Renault, or Ferrari had been in the same situation (designing the best engine), I am wondering if there would be such an uproar.

I am not defending the token system, by the way ... to me it's just as bonkers at the ban on testing.

 

The development ban was put in place to reduce costs, Mercedes was all to happy to sign for this as was Renault (don't forget Renault thought they had the best engine too...until testing came!).

Would there be less uproar if it was Ferrari with the best car and Vettel/Kimi did all the winning? Of course it'd be less (on here at least), but people would still be bored. Yes I'd be happier if it was another team doing all the winning but also I'd want close competition especially at the front.

Teams/media etc all said very quickly during testing in 2014 that the development ban should have been uplifted with immediate effect as the performance disparity between Merc teams and non-merc teams was huge. Mercedes of course, didn't agree with this. Yes had I been in Mercedes shoes I wouldn't have agreed to it either, I get that, so it's hypocritical of me. Perhaps the blame should be laid at the FIA for failing to act.

 

Well, here you go ...

People get into an agreement, and then find it's too tough for them.

You cannot have it both ways!

I also notice that even with the development ban lifted stopped, Mercedes is still well ahead of Renault and Honda.

 

Ferrari and Bernie both didn't want the current power units either but they still came. The FIA makes the rules, and can only be stopped if all teams are against such rules. For the development ban to be lifted prior to 2014 start of the season all teams needed Mercedes, Mclaren, Force india and Williams to agree to lift the ban. It was never going to happen.

And yes, Mercedes was still ahead after the ban was lifted, but like I said, they had more than a seasons worth of advanced data! By the time Ferrari and Renault got onto Mercedes level, Mercedes was again a year ahead! And like I said, with the tokens being so precious, teams couldn't afford to **** up or test something and then revert back and try again next weekend, THAT was another part of the big issue. Only now for 2017 are there no true development restrictions in place.

 

Mandating a formula is sensible, but it is clear that the best approach is not irrelevant technical complication in the form of hybrid PUs. No one in the F1 fan community gives a stuff about that. We care about emotion and speed. Emotion is the primary attribute that PUs used to give us through the amazing noise. Now that is gone. Bring it back.

I would suggest they mandate a V8 or V10 without any hybrid or turbo assistance. Keep it simple and leave it at that. The fans will get what they want, and the costs will be so much lower than today. Seriously, how hard can it be?!

 

The fans cannot dictate the rules.

"Who pays the piper, calls the tune".

As the moment, it's the manufacturers and the sponsors who put money in F1.

So the rules are made around their wishes.

 

+1

An up-to-date NA formula is what I'd want to see the most, and the majority of fans seems so to. Yes there's a group that wants to see the most complicated engines possible, and they have it now. How's it working out I ask...

NA simple engine is cost effective, aurally more pleasing (except for a handful) and makes for a closer field as there's less performance difference between the best and worst engines. Even the development locked V8 engines I still found very entertaining to watch and certainly to listen to. I think Ferrari had the most power, but peaky delivery, Mercedes with a wide powerband and great driveability and Renault with the least power but it ran a bit cooler. Cosworth where there to help out smaller teams with an engine, it's a bit tough to place where that engine was exactly though.

 

Great post. And furthermore, the Mercedes car has been MUCH more dominant than Red Bull or Ferrari ever was.