308 Mirrors

I did an archive search but may have not done it correctly, I would like to add a right side mirror to my dead stock '79 308GTS, I have obtained an OEM Vitaloni Cal. complete with decal, for this purpose, as I understand that having both L & R mirrors was an OEM option. I know from previous experience with Porsches etc. that L & R mirrors are often not mounted in the same position. Could someone tell me if this is so with 308's, and if so possible give me the details of where the right one should go?? If they are in different positions a faxed template would be great, I don't want to screw up my doors as my car is an unmolested original. Hopefully my car is still speaking to me as this is the first time it has spent a winter out of the San Fran. area and a Canadian winter was probably a rude shock. J.

 

I am new to Ferrari chat and also a new 308 owner. I am looking for the right hand side 308 mirror also. I have a 1980 308 gtsi (which only came with a left hand mirror). Any suggestions on where to look? (e-bay keeps giving me 'the one size fits all stuff' and none even look close to the correct one.
Thanks !

 

My 1985 has the passenger mirror from the factory and it is a complete waste!!! They (at the factory) placed it on the right door and it is mounted incorrectly as the power motor in it wont adjust far enough in for it to be useful. I wish it wasnt there as it is a constant annoyance. Have someone hold the mirror in different spots on the door while you sit in the car and take a good look into it to figure out what is the best spot. If it was dealer installed back in the day you probably would not find any two cars a like. This is what I have done on my other collector cars that did not have a passenger mirror. I made the mistake once of putting it in the same spot as the driver's side, only to find out it was blocked by the vent window frame when I sat in the driver's seat..arggggggghhhh. You are right, they are not in the same spot, my 911 sits back several inchs on the passenger side

 

See http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari/308/Mirror.htm for when I put a RH mirror on my '78 GTS.

 

Agreed. Dump the stock mirrirs for the Vitaloni or VIP Auto has virtually the same things for about $12 each. They are manual adjust yet once the mirror is adjusted how often does one actually adjust it afterwards? That is what i did.

 

If you really need a pair why not put the carb style California mirrors on - available & cheap & better looking

 

I had an '85 308 and noted that the passenger side mirror was mounted a few inches to the rear of where the driver's side mirror was. This was done because , if mounted in the same position, the vent window/ frame would block the mirror's view.

If I were to mount a passenger door mirror, I'd have someone hold the mirror in place while checking the placement from the driver's seat . Start by placing it in exactly the same spot as the driver's side mirror and gradually moving it back/up/down until you have a good , unencumbered view.

 

If interested I will check my parts stock. Last time I looked had orginal never used right and left V mirrors which I had purchased from FAF Ferrari for my then 1977 new 308GTB. I don't remember why I bought them as I never needed them , just something I bought and put away.
Doc f

 

They are useless as well! I wish they could be easily replaced by the late 80's Porsche type on 911s and 944s etc. There was a post about comapring 308s and X19s and the 308 in the picture had side views which look like those on my 87 944 - which are wonderfull. I asked the experts if any of them knew who made the mirrors but there were no responses.

 

The early Vitaloni mirrors are sleek looking but they don't work very well compared to the later style mirrors. I will forego originality for a better rear view

my .02,
chris

 

Thanks for all the info, it appears there is no firm consensus as to where the original right side's were placed. I will try to get a sense of the correct spot from some early mag. articles etc. The link was helpful although I gather they just mirrored (excuse the pun) the left side position.
For the person looking for originals, the Vitaloni Californian's (with sticker) are still available, usually in pairs, try ebay UK, etc. They should be in a blister package with the decal. Personally I would not change to anything else as these were part of the character of the car and actually work very well compared to some more unusual cars. My Ultima Sports basically had forward vision only, so the 308's visibility seems great. JP

 

My 1980 came with a passenger mirror but it doesn't stay put regardless how tight I reef the nut. I'd pay big bucks for a motorized type as they added a few years later.

I also see some high end gps displays take rear view camera input. Now there'd be a great combo.

Unfortunately, you know it's available but finding a knowledgeable source is quite difficult.

My biggest fear in traffic is changing lanes...and some visual input is vital.

 

I took a chance and ordered a set of used 1985 911 flag style mirrors (motorized) from Oklahoma Foreign complete with wiring and switches etc for $200. This included the mounting backer plate that Porsche uses to attach their very sturdy mirror to the door panel. The Porsche casting fits the 308 door panel perfectly and the mount is rock solid. No vibration when driving. Got the motors working and now I can adjust the mirrors as needed. They are also heated but did not hook that up as I live in Houston.

If I can figure out how to post pics I will send some along. Had to have the mirrors painted professionally but did everything else myself. They really work great.


Don

 

TRutlands is parting out a 328 with mirrors but they are talking $500 per mirror. I really need to do something to alleviate lane change fears and at $200 that Porsche sounds like a winner.

 

This type perhaps ?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FERRARI-308-BOX-LATER-MODS-ORIGINAL-FACTORY-MIRRORS-PR_W0QQitemZ370209702310QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item563237c1a6&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10|66%3A2|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A5|294%3A50

 

I just called Oklahoma Foreign about the Porsche mirrors which (dandy) Don bought. They now are asking $300 per pair and switches are an extra $25. Guy on phone didn't impress me and I think I'd rather find another Porsche wrecking yard.

But the idea is interesting. Apparently both sides are motorized and there are two switches. One switch selects which mirror is to be adjusted while the other switch is for adjusting. I assume one could just use the passenger side, skip the select switch and mount the adjust switch in the unused Aerial switch center console location. Depending how identical the Porsche mirrors are, just buy the passenger side + adjust switch. Hmmm.

 

If your 79 308 is a USA model and you are interested in keeping it stock I would not do it as you are modifying thus devaluation. Having been around 308's and owning a 77 new, going to shows around the country have Never seen a double factory mirrored model. No early reference showing one. Does that mean no double mirrored existed. No! The factory produced some European models. Namely the 208GTB/GTS ( 1975-1983) This model was made for the Italian market with smaller tubo engine and some 308's again European. These European may have also been modified as no consistancy in mirrors appears to exist. On page 202 of the reference there were a few wild placements eg 36SF and some odd shaped mirrors. Mounting appears similiar R vs L as to placement on the doors. It appears red 308 on pge 201 sports babyV's that used to be avail FAF in the 70's if I remember correctly. Book is The Complete Ferrari by Godfrey Eaton . Hope this helps a bit!
Docf

 

I have a 85 308 and they are elec and no problems whats so ever but then I'm 5'5@ 165lbs not 6' and taller @ 200lbs+,just rightto get in and out and able to see everything where I sit

 

The porsche 911 mirrors are very good quality and the curvature of the basis is pretty good for a 308, however, you might have to do some shaping on a bench belt sander or something similar to fine fit the curvature of the bases to your door/position. The porsche 944 mirrors are the same except for the bases (which have a different curvature). The wiring is pretty basic and the two switches are easily wired and installed. Incidentally, on a 911 the mirrors are not positioned symmetricaly left and right....the passenger side is set back about an inch so as to be in a better viewing position for the driver.

Personally, I'd go with the baby vitaloni's as these are more original for an early ferrari...

 

My 82 308 has only the drivers mirror,if i went with the Vitaloni's, is the left side (USA Driver's) a direct replacement,as in the same hole pattern and will it cover the same area as the oem mirror? Reason i ask i don't want there to be be a spot possibly from color fade if Vitaloni's don't cover the same area.

Thanks,
Bill

 

Yeah, I know it is sacrilege to mount anything non Ferrari on a 308, especially from a 911, but in this case the mirrors really fit the car perfectly. There was no grinding of the door mount brackets required as it turns out the 911 door panel is almost exactly the same curvature as the 308. These mirrors are fantastic. They don't vibrate or wobble and are instead rock solid at all speeds and they are spring mounted so that they snap back into place when pushed out of position. Next posts will show the dimensions and the interior switches mounted. This is a high quality installation with all aluminum parts (painted) that is far superior to anything I have seen on 308s or 328s or QV's. Yeah I know it is not original but they work and look great, not like the all-black plastic stock "add-ons" that I think of when I see a 328 or a QV.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

OK,

Here are some more pics showing mounting holes, dimensions and the interior switch mounting/detail. The holes are pretty large, I admit (3/4") and 4 are required making this modification a bit more than just patching the odd screw hole if one were to change one's mind and install a lesser set of mirrors. And yes the dimensions are different between the driver and passenger door sides. The passenger mirror is mounted higher and further towards the rear of the car. See the pics with the ruler visible. Only barely visible in one of the pics is the 1/8" thick backer plate that is installed inside the door panel and comes with the mirror set. It is what allows Porsche to mount this very substantial mirror to a thin sheet metal door. German sheet metal being no stiffer than Italian you will need to mount this backer plate first with two screws or bolts ( I used stainless steel locking nuts and bolts). It is also used as a template to exactly locate the holes in the door. I bought new plastic mounting gaskets from Porsche to give the mounting a new look-they are special order but were about $8 each. These mirrors are from a 1985 911 but I suspect that any of the years from '85 to '89 will work. Others may work as well. The important thing is to get a non pitted set of mirrors as many of the Porsche mirrors have been "sandblasted" by road debris.



The mirror switch assembly came with the switches and the mounting panel. I simply inserted the switches and then screwed the mounting panel to the bottom of the oil temp and clock housing. I also rigged up an illuminated switch to manually bring both radiator fans on as I have been having difficulty getting the electric temp switch to bring the fans on- seems the temp switch housing collects air somehow and the switch needs hot water of the proper temp to "make" the circuit and bring the fan relays on. Anyway that is another story.


So, as i climb into my fireproof suit, let's hear it how it is a crime to put these mirrors on a 308. Guess I am not that much into absolute stock as you might guess from seeing the 348 wheels on the car. And the '76 dry sump engine with P6 cams is not original either but then again who cares as it is a blast to drive. The whole thing cost about $400- $200 for the mirrors from Oklahoma Foreign and $200 to have them painted, and then a fair amount of my time to wire the things up properly back to the Birdman fuse box which is also not original but way better than the original.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

You could also try Ricambi (advertised here on F-Chat)

 

Mirrors are to enhance you visual information and if it saves one near miss lane change it doesn't matter what it came off. I applaud your work and must admit that I'd be scared to drill those holes. Kidos...thanks for sharing...I'm gonna look out for a pair. I did find some confusion on my first attempt contacting Oklahoma Foreign and several others...Porsche must have a variety mirrors of which 'flag' is one type.

 

Thanx Paul

I did spend some time researching the Porsche mirror "inventory" and mirrors in general. The problem is that most modern mirrors are now mounted to the "sail" panel above the door panel where the triangular shaped window (on really old cars this triangle pivoted to allow venting before most cars had AC) is on the 308. Sail panel mirrors cannot be mounted on a 308 without replacing the triangle sail panel window with a solid panel which I did not want to undertake. The switchover seemed to happen in the 90s when the sail panel became a solid, non vision, element and car manufacturers had the very good idea to install the side view mirrors on them. It solved a lot of problems that door skin mounted mirrors had, notably vibration when the car was moving or running because the mounting bracket interface with the car could now be made to resist motion in all directions not just fore and aft, which is the major downfall with all of these Vitaloni, California and mirrors like them. The mounting attachment is not stable in at least one direction, as most of the mounts are long and narrow and mounted parallel to wheelbase of the car. This allows the mount and mirror to move in the direction perpendicular to the wheelbase of the car ( I think that is yaw). No amount of tightening the mount, bigger fasteners, or stiffening the door skin will ever solve the problem, it is baked into the design of the mount. After mirrors moved to the sail panels virtually no manufacturer spent any time with door panel mounted mirrors. Check it out next time you are out, it is very rare to find a car(by any car maker) with a door panel mounted mirror on the road today, if you do see one it will likely be older than the mid 90's. This limits the search for a high quality (off someone's shelf, just not Ferrari's) door panel mounted mirror system to the 80's. That led me to Porsche.


Porsche, being the anal Germans that they are, in the early to mid 80s (or earlier as I did not look at late 70's Porsche because I wanted motorized mirrors) before car companies moved the mirrors to the sail panels, solved the problem in two ways- 1) by broadening the mount/door skin interface and greatly reducing the mirror's ability to move perpendicular to the wheelbase, the mount is triangular almost instead of long and rectangular and 2) by coming up with an ingenious way of mounting the mirror base itself with a heavy gauge backer plate behind the thin metal door skin and configuring the mirror base with two cast prongs and one tightening bolt/bracket such that tightening the one mounting bolt put the backer plate in tension rather compression as virtually all mirror mounts I have seen try to do rather unsuccessfully. This is why there is a need to drill such large holes in the door to allow this configuration to work. It really is an elegant solution.

There are other styles of Porsche door mounted mirrors notably the 928 which might fit and these mirror bodies have a teardrop shape rather than a flag shape. The 944 has the same flag mirrors but the mounting bracket is much flatter as the door panels are much less curved than the 911. I chose not to pursue the 928 mirrors for cost and availability, there are just so many more 911s around than 928 and the Porsche guys are always trying to upgrade their mirrors to the teardrop style that I just did not pursue the 928 version. And the 911 mirror bases fit the curvature of the 308 exactly even to the point of the left being different than the right because the right (passenger) mirror is mounted higher on the door where the door skin is less rounded and flatter. I did not have to do anything to the mirror bases to match the 308 door skin at all, they fit perfectly.

All in all, I do not think there is a better (looking, reliable, solid, sturdy, parts availability) mirror available at a reasonable cost for the 308. You can compete for the very few 328 or QV mirrors that come available, (upwards of $6-700 or more) but their mounting setup appears to be essentially the same flawed long narrow bracket attached to a door skin. While I have never driven or operated one I suspect that they move while at speed and make it difficult to see things in the mirror. I must say that it is amazing how much just having modern, rock solid mirrors changes the driving experience. It is just a lot safer and you learn to trust your mirrors again as you do in your 200? daily driver. So, this system works but it is not for the faint of heart as the holes attest to. But, I will tell you, if you do install them, and you drive your car even just a little bit, you will never go back they are just that good. Yeah, they are not original, so if your car is a garage queen that only goes out to shows well this is not for you.

Flame suit on and all openings closed, oxygen system functional, ready and waiting!!


Don