348 (non factory) Challenge

hi guys
just wanted to get your opinion on a '91 Challenge that i'm interested it:

FERRARI TB Challenge, Occasion, Benzin, 42'200 km, CHF 79'950.-

obviously it's not a factory Challenge and the stickers look fake. Don't know anything about the history yet, will know more on monday, just wanted to see what the consensus here was, whether it'd be a good buy at the current asking price, which is about 79k USD...
the kit looks original...
much appreciated !

 

You might want to post this in the Challenge section.

 

It has some real challenge parts but it's hard to know if it's a real challenge or not. It still has carpets and some other things. It could have been converted and raced and beat up and painted or just parts and stickers added. For the non-factory Challenge cars, there is just such a wide grey area. That's why you see the premium paid for a factory challenge or a raced but highly preserved car, not anything in between.

 

Advertised for a long time, dont understand why its not selling. If the history is clear and you have no problem with aditional tax from swiss, go and buy it. Price is more then fair.

But again, queck the papers and the history. The missing parts are no big problem.

H.

 

Just guessing, but probably a "tribute car". Doesn't look to have much original Challenge gear-- *maybe* the cage and/or seats? If that's the case I'd value it at around the going rate for a stock car, the thinking being that the non-factory mods detract from the value but the seats and cage, if they're original Challenge parts, are worth something. Even though I'm very much a track junky I don't think I'd pay as much for that car as I would a stock one unless I was intending to install a bolt-in cage anyway.

If it has a documented Challenge history and has subsequently been gussied up for street use then it's probably worth somewhat more than a stock car, depending on its overall condition.

Also, don't discount the possibility that this car was once a standard street car that was pranged pretty hard and then rebuilt into a pseudo-Challenge car in order to distract from its history.

Will be interesting to hear what you find out with regard to its past.

 

This looks like a fake Challenge car to me. For starters, it a 1991 car as stated in the advert (the rear suspension mountings prove that). The 348 Challenge was not introduced until 1993.

I've never seen a Crema interior in a Challenge car - they are normally black interiors.

The engine is stated in the ad as 320 bhp. The engine photo shows a late model 320 plenum - has it actually got that engine and if so - why?? They were only for the latest cars - GTB, GTS and GTC and the last Challenge cars.

This looks like a hybrid cobbled together. Its got some nice Challenge features but is a fake. Tread carefully. Certainly not worth what they're asking, but might be a good car at the right price.

 

Has some nice parts for sure, challenge? no. Could have been an older car updated and raced. I would consider it for sure

 

What is the vin or serial #?

Not much but speculation without that...

Robb

 

What is the vin or serial #?

Robb

 

If a PPI checks out this will be a fun car to drive about in. You're gonna get noticed. Then, if those are real OMP 348 Challenge seats, sell them to the highest bidder and there will be lots of bidders, pocket the cash and buy some standard seats..it's a win/win.

 

Well, I don't know what you mean by a "not factory Challenge" - in fact, all early 348CH have been converted to Challenge spec by dealers. This car has been converted by a Swiss dealer, as far as I know. Why it hasn't been sold yet is indeed difficult to understand.
The problem may be, that 348's are still undervalued, and there is quite some critique also on 348CH in the web - let's say, who has the money will prefer a 355CH, or a road-legal 360CH.
Anyway, the pics look decent, and the price, too.
Keep us updated,
best regards from Switzerland...
David

 

Any car could be used in the challenge series if you bought the kit, my is a 90 (but was raced in Japan thanks to Robb's detective work)

The cage looks to have the OMP sticker in the right place and it does not have the electrical cut out or fire extinguisher, but in the picture it looks like the hole for the electrical master switch is there on the passenger side front of the center tunnel.

Have a look underneath and see if the ducting for the front and rear brake is there

 

I have the alternator ducting on my 348, pretty cool

 

For comparison: Ferrari 348 Challenge TB | eBay

 

That one is far from stock inside or out though.

 

Sorry, but this is not correct. I've owned two 348CHs that raced in the US series, and neither had a black interior- one was tan and the other red. The tan interior was on a 1993 348SS that was dealer-converted to Challenge spec by Wide World of Cars in NY, and the red interior is on a 1994 factory 348CH (#26/32 factory tbs).

 

I also had a factory Challenge car (#24 of 32 tb's), now owned by sherpa23. It has a tan interior.

 

Exactly- the vast majority of cars raced in the US Challenge series were not "factory" Challenge cars, but rather earlier cars converted to race-spec by dealers.

 

David:
As you may know, in the US we had a limited run of "factory" 348 CH cars that came from the factory with some of the kit already installed- the dealer completed the remaining conversion. Maybe that's what the OP is referring to.
Any FYI, there are few street-legal 355CHs in the US (model year 1995 only) and no 360CHs that are legal for street use here. Even the legality of 348 and 355 CHs is arguable, and laws on that differ from State to State.
Ira

 

Correct. And so you can make a 348C out of any car if you have the right now outdated stuff. But if yoh were actually going to track the car everything has expired, seats, belts, fire bottle. The cage is no longer legal and would need to be welded and modified for most current racing. At that point you would not use a challenge cage and weld in a modern cage of known metallurgy. There are only about 30 or so factory challenge cars with factory name plate but same thing above applies.

 

thanks for all the feedback/pointers... some really valuable information here !
i haven't been able to find out much yet, what i know so far though, doesn't seem very encouraging... supposedly the previous owner did some Challenge races, but the car hasn't been moved much since 2006...
the VIN is ZFF FA3 5S0 0008 7491, first registered 3/25/1991
i'll dig deeper tomorrow and post any updates in the Challenge section, so i don't run duplicate threads...
at this point it seems the money is better spent on a GTS/GTB...

 

thanks for all the feedback/pointers... some really valuable information here !
i haven't been able to find out much yet, what i know so far though, doesn't seem very encouraging... supposedly the previous owner did some Challenge races, but the car hasn't been moved much since 2006...
the VIN is ZFF FA3 5S0 0008 7491, first registered 3/25/1991
i'll dig deeper tomorrow and post any updates here in the Challenge section, so i don't run duplicate threads...
at this point it seems the money is better spent on a GTS/GTB...

 

For me this sounds good, where is the problem? Bring it back in the condition when it raced...

 

well, according to the VIN and the internet, the car has once been in the hands of Karl Tobler (in 1998), now Head of the Erlengarage in Romanshorn, Switzerland. You may contact Karl, he may give you more information on this car.
so long - keep us posted!
David

@Ira: Thanks for your insights as a 348CH owner! Yes, I'm aware of the US 348CH, but this is an early European version...
Road legal... well, this is a legal minefield...

 

Thanks for the info David, i will follow up with Mr. Tobler... let's see what can be found out...