456 windows

i think i may have finally found a 456m. but there is a gap at the rear edge of both windows. i have heard some people talk about a possible fix. what is it and is it a factory recall type issue?

 

I have the same problem on my regular 456GT from 1994. God it's noisy at high speed, not talking about the bad waterproof. Any help anyone ?

 

The 456M was supposed to have this problem fixed. My M has a small gap (about 1mm), it is not a major problem and it looks as if the seal could be slightly perished. When I get round to it I'll get some seal feed stuff and see if I can get it to fit again.

On the motorway I notice the slight wind noise, this can be cured if I blip the window down a very small amount.

 

just curious:
my 456 GT [non-M] had the windows done, but the drivers side is still featuring a gap near the rear....just have to glitch the window at speed to get rid of the high-pitch noise, BUT
here's the question: I've noticed the driver's side to be the problem on 456's and not the passenger's side.

has anyone got this similar experience. it's almost like the Luigi worked on the drivers side and Guisseppe on the passenger's side during factory fitting.
Luigi had too much Chianti

 

i dont think the side matters, mine (1997) had this problem all the time on both sides, until they fixed it the last time (about two years ago) and miracle!!, it since then is still perfect!! whereas when they fixed it before that, and they did several times (at least 5 or 6 times) it just came back again after a rather short while....
a mecanic of my dealer told me that when the 456 came out, and it still was all new, clients brought it in, furious that nothing really could be done about this!! what i think is quite incredible, is that this window problem still continued on the M version! because im sure dealers were begging ferrari to solve it!! (they were embarrassd and quite fearful about some client's reactions..) when i look at 456M's that are at my dealer's waiting to be serviced,the majority of them have windows with gaps and as far as i know
there is still no real solution, except to have the windows adjusted by a very good mecanic (lots of them dont want to try fixing them, because it seems really difficult and a finnicky job) and then hope it will last.

 

My 456GT has the window fix. No leaks at all, but just a little bit of wind noise from the driver's side-- passenger's side is perfect. Interesting.

I know that at least the early 456Ms did not have the window fix incorporated at the factory. I don't know about the last ones.

 

can it be as simple as just gluing in an extra rear piece of rubber sealer? it would look the same as what is already there, but just sit proud of the current one by that critical 5-10mm.

 

That is a very good idea :thumbsup:, surprised no one has mentioned this before, if the new rubber covered the old, you wouldn't even know it was there!!! Genius!! You could even experiment with different thicknesses of rubber until you got it just right. Even if you had to buy loads of different pieces of rubber it would be *much* cheaper than getting any of the fixes done.

BTW: On my car it is only the drivers door that has this problem.

And here it is, this was taken last October and I think it's worse now!!

(edit: just been to have alook, actually it's not worse, if anything it's not as bad - not sure why, could be the weather)
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Good idea to fix extra rubber on top around or in the slot under the current seal. What would be the ideal glue for that ? What about injecting some stuff in the round seal to puff it out to stick to the window ?

 

Hmmm, I smell a poll here.

AND, you know what's REALLY FUNNY? [glad you asked], AndyE has a RHD car!!!!,

perhaps Luigi DID drink too much chianti on break....NOTE: email SPa

 

My window fix was done at Ferrari of Seattle, so I doubt it was Luigi!

 

You could get some of that gap filler foam stuff

 

It must be something to do with the use of the windows. I bet during the life of a car the passenger window is only lowered a fraction of the number of time that the drivers is.

 

Good idea, but if I recall the problem is that the window will break inside the door when the angle of the glass becomes too severe.

 

Hi guys, I had my windows fixed last year and I believe they are now as good as they can possibly be.
There are a couple of basic problems with the 456 windows that are not impossible to fix, mind you, but they can be tricky.
One major problem is the construction of the lifting mechanism itself: it has a splined aluminum pin, or shaft, in the middle of it that is just not strong enough for the motor, so eventually it becomes distorted and slack in its mounts.
The fix is to replace it with a stainless steel pin that needs to be welded.
The next problem is the back of the door seal (on the B pillar) that is of poor design and does not press sufficiently well against the glass.
The fix, other than changing the seal is to insert some material under the lip of the seal to make it fatter, so it makes a better contact with the glass.
The third problem is the adjustment of the position of the glass in the carrier.
The glass must overlap some 10 mm over the B pillar seal, otherwise the contact will not be good enough to be water and air tight.
The whole set up must be rather tight: the channels where the glass rides up and down must be adjusted properly, so there is no slack; the travel of the glass must also be adjusted so the glass does not force the lifting device down (and out of shape) when it reaches the top end of its travel.
Some mechanics, including some dealers, just do not want to get involved with this thing as it is a pain to get it to work right.
Some others instead got a good grip of it and can adjust it very well without ripping you off.
Then you see other popular cars like some Hyundays and others that use a similar frameless design and seem to run forever without ever needing the touch of some gifted hand and you are left scratching your head, wondering where the supreme engineering got derailed when it was time to figure out the window lifts....

 

I somehow doubt Pininfarina puts their best guys on window lift designs!

 

Yes and outsourcing to the Far East had not started yet....

 

Question, does water leak through these gaps, especially during washing?

 

No, not on my gap. I suppose if I directed the hose jet at it it might, but not during normal washing or in the rain.

 

Had a mechanic fix mine. It looked just like the pics and leaked water when I bought it. The window is not on the track exactly right. That's it. Have them adjust it. It is too far forward, and possibly too high. Mine was forward and would bow out slightly when all the way up because it was adjusted too high. Don't bother with all the added rubber stuff. A mechanic who is very careful can get it right. No problems since and I've put the windows up and down hundreds of times.

 

I feel your pain, guys, i have spent up to a day per side getting these windows right, but it's worth the effort. This is how i do it, maybe it will be of help to some of you. They did make a modified regulator, but at around £1200 per side, fixing your own is the better option!!

1. Remove the door trim.
2. Remove the plastic waterproof membrane behind it.
3. look at the rear of the regulator. There are several brackets on it, all of which are adjustable.
4. If you have exessive gap AT THE TOP of the window, loosen the bolts securing the bracket at the rear of the regulator, between the regulator and door. lift the bracket up, then re-secure the bolts. If there is not enough movement to get rid of the gap(common!), remove the bracket and elongate the holes upwards, using a dremmel-type die grinder.
5. If you have exessive gap AT THE REAR of the window, packing the same bracket with thin washers(between the door body and the bracket) pitches the window inwards, and will therefore close this gap.
It's important to remember to do all adjustments slowly, and a bit at a time, as twisting the window glass can cause breakage. It's a long process, but with time and methodical thinking, you can get the gap near-perfect, even if your regulator is very worn. Just remember to close the door and re-check the gap after ech adjustment. Good luck!

 

Great tip Eddie. Thanks for that!

 

Interesting. However, having a mech do door/window work sounds an expensive venture. Might try it myself, but not sure I want to start doing a door-teardown.

did the mech. have any better insight into the adjustment needed?....once in awhile, the driver's side window goes up about 1" too far, I then need to roll it down and back up....windows are an oversight by PFarina??? they have trouble with hydrolic tops too.

 

I just placed on e-bay an OEM left door rubber seal. I needed the drivers side and accidently bought the passenger side. Duhh! Check it out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140119827618

I'll post picks later of the removal and installation as soon as I get the right part.

 

I have just placed a 7mm black watering pipe in the gap between the back of the seal and the lip sealing the back of the window. Guess what ? It holds and works perfectly. No gap any more and the pipe is almost invisible. Quick fix before the big job undoing the trim and adjusting the regulators. Thanks Eddie.