Antifreeze Time

Now that I have sold my Jacksonville home and moved to my former weekend home, the Ferrari & Shelby don't get a climate controlled garage, they get to share a boat house with much larger company that are already winterized.

The temperature has dropped to freezing temperatures here in SW Georgia, the Shelby is easy, just drown it in Prestone, any suggestions for type and quantity for the Ferrari.

 

Prestone 5 year antifreeze is fine. You can also use Peak brand as well. I would stay away from the store brands like KMart. I don't know much about them, they may be fine or not.

Make the mix 50:50 for freeze protection down to -30F. The 50:50 mix will also have okay heat capacity for cooling in the warmer months. If you need better freeze protection, increase the glycol content. You can get to about -70F protection at 60% glycol. I doubt you need that in GA. I would think a 50:50 mix would be fine for your GA area.

I always mix my water and glycol in a bottle first then add to the car. That gives a better mix that you can check before adding to the car and you will no have spots in the glycol system where there is higher or lower concentrations of the glycol. This can happen when you just dump in a gallon of conc. glycol and top it off with water. Oh and use distilled water or softened water. These are best for making the mix.

 

I am not sure I need real low temperature protection done here. How much coolant does a 308 hold? Whats your thoughts on draining a gallon of water from the system and just adding antifreeze? Isn't there a particular antifreeze for aluminum engines?

 

IMHO, use a 50/50 mix of regular Prestone (green) anti-freeze, with a bottle of Red Line Water Wetter added, for good measure. A scientist friend of mine did a whole study on cooling, coolants, anti-corrosion additives, etc., and says that the 50/50 mix is about optimum. Since the coolant that came from the factory was the old green stuff, and since the green stuff is not compatible with the newer orange stuff and can cause problems if you mix them, just stick with the green stuff. A good anti-freeze like Prestone has all the anti-corrosion additives you need for your aluminum block and all other internal parts.

 

Forgot to mention that you should change your coolant every two to three years if you are using the green stuff, mainly because of the anti-corrosion factor. Over time, the coolant looses the anti-corrosion additives, so you want to change the fluid even if you don't need to worry about the car freezing. And the Water Wetter helps to keep the running temps of the engine down but also boosts the anti-corrosion effectiveness of the mixture.

 

I have changed the oil and trans oil once in the 4 plus years I've owned the car and planning on changing the oil and brake fluid again in the spring. I guess I should splurge and change the water when I add the antifreeze

 

LOL Yes, please change the water!!! Water alone is not good for your car in the cooling system. The anti-freeze does a lot more than just keep the cooling system from freezing. Water, as we all learned, boils at 212*F. Ethylene glycol, the main component in anti-freeze, has a much higher boiling point. So it helps to keep your cooling system from overheating. Water is a better conductor of heat than anti-freeze, but raising the boiling point of the mixture has a lot of benefits.

Plus, water alone is very corrosive and can destroy your engine block, eat up the bronze impeller on your water pump and do lots of other nasty stuff inside there. You need the anti-freeze to protect against corrosion and to raise the boiling point of the mixture to avoid overheating, not just to keep the engine from freezing.

BTW, I use distilled water in my cars because the water around here has a lot of minerals in it. Depending on the water quality where you live, you might want to consider going distilled. A couple of gallons should only cost a buck or two or three at your local supermarket.

And don't forget the Water Wetter!!! Good stuff, IMHO.

 

This is the best advice, although with using traditional American "green", two years should be tops with engines that use alloys. American manufacturers have moved away from using the traditional green and are now using European formulations like G05.

 

FasterIsBetter makes some good points.

Change all the coolant(I assume you are just pulling our electronic leg here). It is easier to pull off a low hose and let it drain. Add the mix and bleed the air from the system. I always have 3 gallons of the green (ethylene glycol) stuff concentrated stuff around so I always have enough. Any extra can be kept in a closed bottle and used later if needed.

Your manual should have a system volume on it, if not there is this guy on the west coast that has the same last name as yours. He seems to know a lot about these cars.

 

328 cooling system is around 22 litres I think & so would assume a 308 is about the same. Its in the owners manual

Before draining it open the heater valves.

When filling it bleed it at the thermostat, the radiator & if the heaters don't work first time I remove the fibreglass tub up front (its only about 8 screws) & bleed the air out at the heater boxes just by slackening off a hose or two in that area.

 

22 liters = 5.812 gallons

 

Electronic Leg, I do like that one.

On standard cooling systems, I usually open the radiator drain valve and put a water hose in the rad. cap while running the engine. Run that way until the engine get to operating temp and the thermostat cycles a few time, then drain with a radiator hose and refill with 50/50.

With a 308's system and all the possible air pockets, I figured I would just drain and reill with 50/50 till full, then work on bleading out the air. My expirence is that it stays in for a while and after a short drive open the radiator bleed and release all the air.

 

thats a lot of water....coolant

 

For the 308:
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it looks like you make up your coolant mix with 2 gallons of antifreeze

 

It doesn't need to be that exact - but you wouldn't want it more than 50:50 or less than say 70:30 so I'd say 2 Gallons (US) would do fine in a 308.

Checked the 328 manual it is 22 litres. I usually stick 2 x 5 litre cans in.

 

Chart says 18 liters. That works out to about 4.75 gallons. I say just mix up a bunch of 50/50 mix (don't forget the Water Wetter... LOL), say 2 gal. coolant to 2 gal. water, and start filling. If you need more, use one of the empties and mix up another gal. of 50/50, keep filling and save the extra for topping up if needed. YMMV, but that's the way I do it.

 

Lots of right stuff has been said, but I disagree on some points (from scientific as well from car lover’s point of view). I am using the quote just for example:

First, I agree that all people learned that water is boiling at 212F. This refers to standard conditions (1013 mbar / approx. 14,7psi). Ever tried to open the lid of the compensation tank when the car is hot? Quite some overpressure there. The cooling system is designed to work over pressurized. As we all learned, the boiling point of water is pressure dependent.
E.g. 1500 mbar / approx 21.7 psi the boiling point of water is about 112°C / aprox. 233F. And given that I opened said lid under pressure (and severe burned my hand, stupid me) I would estimate the pressure is even higher. And if the media inside the cooling system goes above 112°C/233F, you definitely have other things to worry about than what kind of anti freeze to add.

Second point from the quote I completely agree: The thermal conductivity of water (the ability to pick up and release "heat") is lowered by adding any kind of anti-freeze. Think about that in detail: The more anti-freeze you add, the longer it will take the coolant to absorb the heat from the engine. Also it will take longer to "remove" the heat from the coolant at the cooler / vents.

Thus is basically the reason why I add as much anti-freeze to make sure that no freezing will happen. (Relying on manufactures advise about the mixture).

Regarding the corrosion: There is a difference between distilled water and demineralised water. If a couple of gallons costs a buck or two, it is definitely no distilled water. However, distilled water in a closed system, like the cooling system is (or should be), will cause no corrosion at all. Not even to carbon steel, let alone aluminium. Same applies to demineralised water as long as we are not talking about centuries here.

Nevertheless using demineralised water is a good idea, actually for our cars, which we want to keep healthy for decades, almost mandatory. Even below the boiling point water (also together with anti-freeze) has a vapour pressure. This could lead to minerals condensing out of the coolant and once this started it might lead to a kind of clogging in certain areas of the cooling system.

I also totally agree on not mixing unknown anti-freeze with another anti-freeze. On the other hand, it is not that hard to empty the system, purge it with demineralised water, empty again, and fill up from the start.

So from (my) scientific point of view: Any ethylene-glycol based anti freeze will do fine. I only add as much as needed / necessary to "survive" the cold time of the year to prevent freezing. If I would (regarding the expected temperatures) have to add equal or more then 50% anti-freeze, I would empty the system in spring and refill it just with demineralised water.

If you look at the ingredients of the anti-freeze stuff on the market I am really curious about what is going to "prevent corrosion", which basically can not happen in a well maintained and closed cooling system. But maybe it is only me.

However, just my opinion,

Best Regards,
Dirk

P.S. My little Diva (the 328) is such a drama queen. The 356 and the 911 always laugh about her, when I prepare her for the cold days.

 

I may not have read your post correctly, but distilled water or water with no ions is actually much more corrosive than water with ions. This is because the ions buffer the pH. Without the ions, any carbon dioxide in the air that gets absorbed into the water, forms carbonic acid, thus lowering the pH and under the acidic conditions, corrosion can be much more aggressive. Using distilled water avoids any scale formation from calcium and magnesium ions found in harder waters.

For corrosion to occur, there needs to be three things present; water, a metal surface and oxygen. Take away any one of those and there is no corrosion. In a closed system like a cooling system in a car, the amount of oxygen in the water is not much, but it is there. So a little corrosion will occur. Add in the glycol corrosion protection package which includes silicate for aluminum protection, azole for yellow metals, borate to buffer the pH up to around 8 and some mild steel protection from phosphate or nitrate/nitrite and you have a nice stable corrosion resistant system.

Okay, chemistry lesson is over. Be sure to enjoy the car, that's the point of owning one.

 

I am sure glad I didn't say I was going to change my oil and if I should use 'Dino" or synthetic oil.

 

If you google "Carl rose 328 coolant" you get a good write up of the process. If you decide to change the hoses up front, get Dave Helms hoses from Daniel or 1 5/8" napa gold stripe or gates green stripe hoses, the 1.5 inches hoses in the write up are just too tight to do all of them successfully(I've recently found this out). Also loosen the battery and move forward slightly out of it's spot, it helps with creating room for the hose change if you do that. Also, i noted that after removing the heater hose, only about 2.5 gallons came out but with removal of the coolant hoses from the lower radiator mount and the lower hose just posterior to the battery you drain an additional 1.5-2 gallons, in otherwords, most of the coolant. IMHO, this is the only way to truly change all the coolant, mine as well change at least those hoses as well unless the are not that old.

Use the green stuff, prestone or other, I haven't had a mechanic tell me to use anything else, just change every two years as suggested.

Good luck.

Jeff