Just wondering, and not trying to add fuel to the Boeing/Airbus fire... Frontier (Republic Airlines) is Hubbed here in Denver. We had a BIG hail storm the end of last week. Big Damage. Frontier has many planes still out of service a week later; all Airbus according to the local news (not a great source of reliable info). Frontier flies CRJs, Embraer and Airbus. Why are the CRJ and Embraer planes flying and not the Airbus? To be fair, United/Continental had some planes damaged, but I don't know what all they fly. They were all back in service in a day or two after 'inspecting' them. Southwest (all Boeing), according to the news had no planes out of service. Is there something about Airbus that makes them more suseptible to hail? Or is our local news full of it.
That's what I was wondering... maybe someone here knows more about Airbus construction. A pilot friend of mine knows well several Frontier and United/Continental mechanics. They call Airbuses 'disposable' compared to 727s, 737s, etc., but I don't know why. They just said on the news (again) that almost all the Frontier Airbus planes in Denver at the time were damaged. Just wondering...
Insteresting that American just ordered a mix of 737s and A320s, their first Airbus purchase in a long while. These are all intended to replace the MD80s. But why would they order two different aircraft to apparently fill the same need?
Maybe its favored customer status with Boeing for a lower price and its new customer with Airbus who ALWAYS LOWBALLS anybody that they can get to switch from Boeing.
I'm guessing that it probably had to do with wait time; neither company would have been able to deliver all of the aircraft in the time that AA wanted them, so they split the order accordingly.
Could be a variety of things that really don't have anything significant to do with the manufacture of the planes. The first thing that comes to mind is if they were able to hanger the smaller planes to avoid damage in the first place. Something similar used to happen where I used to live. Big snow storm comes through and they park the smaller planes inside and the big stuff gets left out. Very limited de-icing capability so as soon as the runway was plowed the little guys were ready to go and anything larger was stuck waiting around.
No matter what the price having 2 different types of aircraft to perform essentially the same mission is inconceivable. Two different spares provisioning, 2 different maintenance programs, 2 different type ratings, 2 different maintenance schools. Who at American forgot to read the Southwest playbook on cost efficiencies from operating a single type? I remember a very senior SWA maintenance person talking of the per station cost to convert from 737 Classic to 737 NG. A decent sized number for what we all considered pretty much the same aircraft. What will it take for provisioning $ if Airbus and Boeing both come into the same station? What all this does make we wonder is how the cancellation clauses are written in the contract. Does this force Boeing to announce the complete 737 replacement and then AA cancels/sells all their A320 positions? Jeff
Boeing announced yesterday that they were going to reengine the 737 over making a new design. http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/07/20/359737/albaugh-outlines-reasons-behind-opting-for-re-engined.html
Boeing has been working on a new 737 type airplanes for some time and the current airplane is hard to beat without having a quantum leap in technology.
The 737 is the most user friendly commercial aircraft ever made. Super easy and straight forword to work on, All you need to service the engines is a short ladder. Every system on the aircraft can fail and if the aircraft has fuel it will stay in the air. Try that in a AB. Its like somebody else said, AB are through away aircraft.
Jeff, this is true for a small airline, but is not true when you are buying 460 airplanes. This order is a major victory for Airbus as it gets the lion's share of the order and forces Boeing to imitate their A320 NEO re-engining strategy after they had claimed for years that this was not an option and they wanted to develop a brand new aircraft for 2020. I guess the 787 fiasco convinced AA that Boeing won't be able to develop a brand new 7*7 by 2020 and that buying A320s NEO was the safest/best option. Boeing is losing money (at least $1B) on the tanker contract, will never make a pretty penny on the 747-8 program, and will not make any money before they sell 787 # 1,500. They certainly are not in a position to invest $12 or 15B into a 7*7.
American's public reason for splitting the order is that neither Boeing nor Airbus could deliver the number of aircraft they need in the specified period of time. I flew Delta preferably because they used Boeing aircraft. That went away when they bought Northwest and integrated NW's Airbus fleet. Now that I am retired, though, I fly Southwest so am back to a Boeing fleet. It looks like anyone needing a 737 in the near future will be SOL until AA's order is filled. Taz Terry Phillips
Got some insight from a friend close to the Airbus people. Airbus did not expect their cut of the order to be anywhere close to this big. The A-321s will be used to replace the 757 fleet. AA used this order to force Boeing to re-engine the 737s. The engines will be the same as for the A320neo; fleet compatibility. The Boeings will replace the MD-80 fleet. Jeff
Jeff- Had not heard the 757s had any problems that would require their replacement, except they are still narrow bodies. Everything I see on the A321 shows no real improvement over the 757 in seating. The 757 line was shut down because the latest 737s were essentially aimed at the same market, but the 757s have had very few problems. Taz Terry Phillips
Lufthansa has been doing this for a long time: http://konzern.lufthansa.com/en/fleet.html http://investor-relations.lufthansa.com/en/fakten-zum-unternehmen/fleet.html
Agreed that the 757 is a great airplane. The 737-900 has not really been successful in taking over from the 757. The 757 has range capability that the -900 has been unable to match. The 757s have a strong market for freighter conversions. As an overall fleet renewal the 757 needs to be retired at some point. Jeff
Discount the 737-800 IGW. These are not owned or operated by Lufthansa but instead a contract operation by PrivatAir. The Lufthansa 737s are the older Classic versions. These will be going away over time. What makes the American Airlines deal different is that they are making new acquisition of what are directly comparable aircraft types. Referencing Lufthansa it would be the same as buying 777s and A340 to fly what are routes that either could be used on. Jeff
