Morning, I had planned to fill it with a reasonably priced 5litres for £22 oil, (75w90 hypoid) run it for a couple of hundred miles just to "flush" it through and then drain it and replace it with a quality oil. Would that cause the box any problems ? Thanks Del
I have had it suggested that run the car until the box is warm with a 10w 40 engine oil, which has a similar viscosity and some cleaning agents in it. Then drain and I will try Gulf Competition 75w90 oil. Del
Del- Why are you doing this crap? Just drain the oil, clean the filter, and fill with a good synthetic 75W-90 transmission oil. If you want to ensure everything is clean, do it again in 6 months. Do not know anything about the Gulf Competition 75W-90, but if it is not a synthetic, find one and use it. Some competition oils are designed to be flushed and changed after every use. I use Valvoline, the original Shell will work fine, and many pros like Redline. No need to make this more complicated than it is.
Dan at Bradan just switched me to RedLine and I've noticed a real difference in the ease of shifting, especially when the box is cold. Frank
The box has sat on a shelf for a while, I thought there would be old tired oil inside it ?? I didn't want to put an expensive oil in it and then change it in a couple of months for another expensive oil, although I accept you cant run these cars on a budget... I have used Redline in my Maserati and it has helped the 1st to 2nd change. If anybody needs it the seals on the box are; Input 30x45x8 Output 45x60x8 The output ones are made by Gaco, which don't exist anymore, I am not sure what Ferrari supply but they charge £24 plus tax and postage !!! Del
I know opinions differ on this subject, but mine is that manual gearbox oil has a nearly unlimited shelflife, whether it is in a gearbox or in a container. Yes it should be changed after 60.000-100.000 miles or so (less with hard use) but that is about all the attention it needs. Gearbox oil even after 40 years (classic cars) is clean, as is the gearbox itself, provided there was no water ingress for whatever reason. It also does not contaminate as long as there is a magnet in the box. Gearbox failures are nearly always related to abuse, bad adjustment, bad parts, mileage, wrong oil type or low oil level, but I have yet to see one that I can relate to old oil. (apart from the ZF autoboxes with 'lifetime fill'...!.. but autoboxes are a different breed anyhow since they have linings and friction surfaces that contaminate the oil)
Completely untrue for Ferrari transaxles, which are pump lubricated. The ones you are used to are splash lubricated and not nearly as rough on transmission oil. Remember, too, that the rear end and limited slip are being lubricated by the same oil, and that is rough on the lubricant, too. Every two years is the recommended change interval from Ferrari, and on some Ferraris that should probably be annually because the 360 and F430 are really rough on transaxle oil. Plus those two run the risk of coolant fouling by the transmission oil cooler so frequent changes are a safety pin for cooler leaks. Transaxle oil in those two is frequently black with contaminants after 2-3 years.
Taz, I do not see why a pump lubricated gearbox would be any different from splash lubrication. In a way you could say that having a pump in there actually prolongs life of the oil because the temperatures will be more constant/lower. Some modern gearboxes use narrower gears and higher forces on them which may be harder on the transaxle oil, but that is very much mileage related and little to no influence on shelf life. I would consider the 456/550 gearboxes of the 'old school' variety. The rear end and LSD - yes I agree that puts some additional demand on the oil. However, there is a lot of it in there compared to a separate diff or gearbox. Most diffs or gearboxes have 1-1.5 litres in there, these have far more. To compare, on more mundane yet high performance cars the most stringent I have seen was a replacement interval of 100.000km or five years. However this seems quite randomly chosen per manufacturer, raising the question whether there is a true engineering reason behind some of these prescribed maintenance intervals. Often there is just a mileage requirement, or even none at all ("for-life"). All this not to say that I approve of just leaving it in there, far from it, but with the mileages that most F owners rack up (or should I say lack to rack up), a service interval for this component of every two years is completely superfluous maintenance.
Makes a big difference and oil changes should be much more frequent, as recommended in the maintenance schedule. On my Corvette splash lubricated gearboxes, the fluid lasted nearly the life of the transmission, assuming no leaks. Pushing the fluid through a pump and lubrication feeds definitely shortens its life. On the mid-engine cars, add engine heat to that. How many splash lubricated systems do you know that have transaxle coolers added? There is one on my 575M, too.
Taz I want to change the gearbox oil as I have no record as to when it was done last. The question is synthetic or the stuff it came from the factory with. Any suggestions?
Steen- It came from the factory with Shell synthetic 75W90. Any good synthetic can be used. I like Valvoline, many like Redline. Either, or others, works great. Just change it frequently. Some pros like to change it annually, but for me every two years as recommended has worked fine for the front engine V12s.
Gents For what i know regarding Oil , Oil change in Gear box and differential Well the first question is why doing this ? The gearbox and split differential are subject to lubricating need and heat transfer So the first is cover by the viscosity of the oil and the second is cover by the amount of oil ( heat transfer is help on the 456 with radiator to cold down ) Even if the gear box and differential are in a close sealed compartment ,it is not unfamiliar that the Humidity deteriorate the oil as well as the above already mentioned Now there is another aspect and this is for the metal particule, you generate some every time you hear the gearbox when shifting making this grinder noise ! ( make the trials of oil sample to a lab and you will be surprise of what they find in the oil after 1 or 2 years usage ) Some gearbox have a magnet but not all to collect the metal. For what i know the 456 MGT doesn't have one Therefore if i can suggest , flushing a gearbox have only sense if you have the gear box rebuilt and you want to make sure that no flying part are present , you do not need to drive 100miles just 300ft and it will be enough , drain properly Replace oil every 2 years if you daily drive or every year if your car stay much of the time with the parking brake on keep in mind this gearbox have been design to run at high speed input shaft and high speed output shaft ,this mean that the demand on the oil is greater than on more conventional Gearbox For the Automatic gear box i'm not familiar enough to talk about it .
If I followed that with my clients I'd have to hire additional employees to do all the overhauls. Really bad advice. If you are going to profess even less than the factory suggested service you should be willing to step up and pay for the required repairs that such advice leads to. As it is we don't even have a name so we know who to blame.
"Even less than the factory prescribed" you say, are you suggesting 24 months is not soon enough? We had similar discussions before, I know you like use such harsh talk to prove a point. If you can prove that damage will ensue related to "old" gearbox oil (I am speaking of leaving in in there for more than the 24 months, not mileage!) I would not be afraid to step up. But mind you, I am not alone in what I stated, I am not just saying what I said out of my own imagination. Many other car manufacturers (including Alfa Romeo etc) have NO interval for their manual gearboxes or final drives after the one for run-in. None at all! No year, no mileage, just a top-up every 50 - 80k or so. Are you saying those manufacturers are mad? Taking risks with their customers? Or perhaps you say their gearboxes are better than Ferrari's? Please explain to me in engineering/tribology terms, what the difference could be. BMW for instance, even for their larger sized engines, prescribes 5 years/60k miles. This and a lot more interesting info from this link: What transmission fluid do you use (and how often do you replace it)? - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums ... Interestingly they changed it prior to the advent of BMW Free Scheduled Maintenance, approximate BMW maintenance recommendations were: automatic transmission fluid (ATF) and filter changes every 15,000 miles, manual gearbox and differential oil changes every 30,000 miles, annual brake fluid changes, and coolant changes every two years. Spark plugs, air filter, and fuel filters were typically replaced every 30,000 miles on most BMWs (this is a tune-up) except M cars up to 1995, which got new spark plugs and a valve adjustment every 15,000. Later advances in computer engine management and spark plug technology legitimately allow 60,000-mile spark plug life if not more. ... But once BMW began paying for scheduled maintenance, lo and behold the "schedule" was revised. Now the cars hardly need any maintenance at all. The 1,200-mile break-in service was done away with except for M cars. Engine oil suddenly lasts 15,000 miles (dealers are supposed to use BMW synthetic oil). Manual gearbox and differential oil? No worries there – now BMW says they NEVER need to be changed; it's "lifetime fill." Brake fluid and coolant service intervals were doubled with no change in the original BMW brake fluid and anti-freeze dealers are supposed to use. ... So. I ask you, are Alfa and BMW taking risks, has oil development finally marched on, or have the maintenance schedules in the past been set far too stringent, and are we panicky overmaintaining our cars as a result? Since you are saying between the lines I am foolish to change oils every five years or so and not every two, and am ill-advising people here (on an open forum, where everyone is entitled to an opinion, and everyone who decides to follow has their own responsibility as well) then prove to me WHY the days of gearbox oil once it's in a gearbox are numbered. So limited in fact hat according to your statement, all the owners of Ferraris with a manual gearbox have to fear a grenaded box if left in there for 25 months instead of the prescribed 24, and yes even if that box has only done a few thousand miles in that period?
Manual gearboxes can also have friction linings that slowly contaminate the oil. That is the case with Tremec boxes (Corvette and other cars). So the oil may be good for decades,but the contamination is the reason to change it occasionally.
How many Ferrari 'boxes have you rebuilt, and what were the modes of failure discovered during your rebuilds?
Oh Eddie, you can't teach him anything, he knows it all. As long as we protect the others from this stupidity it's all we can do. Just another anonymous internet expert. Can't even screw up the courage to tell us who he is.
Blowing smoke, I see? I have not seen any arguments in your reply to fund your "stupiditÿ" statements, so I think we can assume you don't have them?
