GTO values

So pretty much everyone said the car would depreciate (see threads that were in 288/F40/F50/Enzo section).

I realise its early days but cars in the UK seem to be demanding anywhere up to £50k over list to those who really want one. Whats the situation around the globe and where do we see them going?

Been told the 599 successor wont be as good as the GTO but surely Ferrari will need to respond to the LP700?

 

Ferrari needs to "respond" to Lamborghini?

I doubt Enzo would see it that way ...

 

I know three people including myself who have turned down offers to sell their GTO's for more than a base six figure profit. I think you will find very few sellers and a lot of potential buyers that are kicking themselves for letting this one get away from them. The limited build Ferrari 599 GTO is a keeper for a lot of us owners......current values are irrelevant. Lambo's come and go. Future exotics will be faster, have more hp and more gizmo's. That too is irrelevant. This Ferrari is forever.

 

It's still early days.....the true test will come once the 599 replacement is officially announced.....nonetheless I still feel that the GTO should hold value better than most other cars in this category....

 

Agreed. Offers at above cost have been floated my way--simply not interested.

Only one way to find out whether its a million pound car or one that tracks a more traditional value trajectory--wait, see and enjoy it for all of its "present value" in the meantime

 

Here in Switzerland there are virtually no real cars on the second hand market, the one I did see was asking CHF 50k over list. My dealer is still turning away serious buyers. Auto Salon Singen advertise some cars, not sure if they are real

 

Stop saying that! You are making my chances of every owning one sound terrible right now!

 

You have no chance. The 599 GTO is the first modern Ferrari production car that will only go up in value!

It's a can't lose investment!!!

 

I see it following a similar depreciation curve as the 550 Barchetta. Its not going to increase in value but it should hold pretty well.

 

^

i tend to agree jerry - though maybe not drop as much as the 550Bar - i think it will hold, and then start to fall ....whats the old saying ? "Growth, Maturity, Decline".

 

I would say it is too early to speak about depreciation. I think cars are still being delivered which "optically" keeps prices high as the only offers are new cars pretty much.
I would say current rate is about EUR 50k on top of list.

 

I think reading the Market in the future is going be quite complex since the cars look to have been more personalised than any previous model.
After all is the price at which a green with red stripe sells really going to be an indication of the Market?
Also, certainly in the UK, it looks very few people have ordered RC red cars - so even that isn't going to be a true benchmark

 

Thats not what I said and thats not what I mean't. All I'm trying to say is that lot of owners I have talked to plan on holding on to this car for a very,very long time. Values go up........Values go down...If you plan on keeping your GTO for the next 20/30 years. Todays values are irrelevant. Both the 250 and 288 GTO values tumbled to almost ridiculously low levels and were soon past over for the next faster improved model..... Before their true worth was eventually recognized. Many of todays GTO owners including myself. Passionatly believe that one day, some day the 599 GTO will attain the same status. If others wish to gauge a cars historical significance. By the every day flucuations in todays market and the health of our economy on any given day. Well, so be it. As I said in an earlier post....I find the entire exercise irrelevant. In the meantime, I will continue to drive what I consider to be a rare and very special Ferrari.

 

288 GTO had MSRP about $80k in US.
It NEVER got to that price on secondary market.....

 

I wouldn't agree that the 250 GTO and 599 GTO are on an equal historical footing.

A better comparison might be 512 TR and F512M prices. Neither car has any history, but the M is rarer so remains a six figure car while the 512 TR continue to depreciate.

Of the 599 GTB, 599 GTB HTGE, 599 GTO and 599 SA Aperta, it's probably reasonable to assume that the GTO and SA Aperta versions will always command a premium. But you will always be able to buy any one of those on the used car market.

 

Just a couple of final thoughts. Your response completely ignores the 288 GTO. Which I believe is a lot closer to the mark when debating whether the 599 GTO will someday achieve the same iconic status. As to comparing future values of the GTO against the 512 TR and F512M... Lets not forget that neither TR was badged a GTO by the factory. There are only 3 GTO's in Ferrari history so honored and the 599 GTO like it or not is one of them.

 

Honoring the '80s Mondial and Testarossa with those hallowed names (only 2 ever honored in Ferrari history) doesn't seem to have vaulted them to the top of collectors' wish lists.

Ferrari can limit the number made to 600, as Porsche has done with the 997 Speedster (356 made) or Ferrari itself did with the F512M (200 made?), but it is difficult to generate iconic status in the Marketing department, particularly for a car that shares a body style with the regular 599 GTB.

Ultimately, the 599 GTO's heritage rests on the badge, not on a racing history or pedigree.

To your point: As far as the comparison with the 288 GTO super car, it's hard to put the cars in the same category:

1. The 288 GTO was actually homologated for racing (thus the name). The 599 GTO wasn't. This has been discussed to death on this board.
2. The 288 GTO towered over the rest of the sports/exotic car field like a kind of god back in 1984. There was nothing close. Today, the 599 GTO sits in a pack of very fast production cars - Porsche 997 Turbo S, Ferrari 458 Italia, McLaren, Lamborghini Aventador and probably others. It's a great car, just not a gamechanger, and probably not the ultimate performance car in 2011.
3. The 288 GTO started Ferrari's line of super cars (288 GTO-F40-F50-Enzo), all unique, extreme efforts that shared essentially nothing with the regular production cars. That gives them all a cachet that has sustained demand even for the "common" F40.

None of this really matters in evaluating whether the 599 GTO is a great car. But I think the hype here about how no one will ever sell one and values can only go up is going a little far.

 

The one real problem with GTO values is it will be a long time, probably never, before I can afford one. I have a feeling they will hold up way better than that other recent limited production car, the Scuderia Spider 16M, which is already available at a steep discount to what owners paid. Never mind the Scuderia itself, which has really taken it in the shorts.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Possibly the greatest post I have ever seen on this message board--with the exception of a lot of AceMaster's Pretty Girl posts.

 

Amen. Fully agree! If the price were to depreciate the fun factor won't. This car is all about passion and emotion and people have already started to realise that. It's worthy of the badge and what the price of it will be in the future ... we can only guess but I don't expect it to fall like a rock out of the sky. As speedracer stated ... many of its current owners don't even consider selling it despite being offered very attractive prices for it. That says a lot about this car.

 

I guess thats where we part ways. I believe the 599 GTO "IS" a gamechanger. A bridge between where Ferrari was .....and where it is going. As well as probably being the last natural 12cyl. available for years to come. The factory badge and a very limited production number is also something that cannot be dismissed lightly. Again , I never said no one would ever sell their GTO. Or that their value will explode to the upside. I simply said that many of us passionately believe that someday the 599 GTO will attain the status we believe it deserves. If we are right prices eventually will reflect that fact. If we are wrong, it won't. Simply put, Todays . tomorrows, next years prices used as a measurement to determine the historical significance and value of this car is meaningless.
Thanks TAZ and especially Driver550 and M for some support. I was getting pretty lonely out here. Time to check in with AceMaster.

 

The V12 in the FF puts out some pretty incredible stats and it's naturally aspirated. It makes similar power but more torque, of which more is available throughout the rev range. The new GDI V12 has 386lb ft available from 1000rpm, that's insane from an atmosphere engine that also is a high revving screamer. It's also more fuel efficient and cleaner as well. People started mourning the death of the V12 a bit too soon I think. The GDI 6.3 V12 has a lot more to be worked out of it than what we see in the FF IMO. Lamborghini's new V12 creates loads of power too. Until the 599 replacement comes out we won't know if people will stay with their love of the GTO. By no means am I belittling the 599 GTO, it is a massive appeal to the senses and represents the best Ferrari formula. I just think saying it's the "last of the natural V12s" is talking a bit soon. Technology could very well keep this configuration at the top, even improve it. Forza Ferrari, forza V12

 

Here's a surprise: the owners that bought the 599GTO feel it is g-d's gift to Ferrari lineup, and those that didn't feel it is not comparable to the historical greats.

My opinion, having casually observed the GTO and its contemporary competitors, is that this is a wonderful and desirable car right now, but it is not a timeless one. For comparison, just look at the pattern of prior Ferrari in any recent limited edition that were derived from a base car and tweaked. I am no automobile historian but I just don't see any premium holding over time for these kinds of cars (see the recent examples 16M and Scuderia which by all accounts were fantastic cars, as well as similar limited edition offerings from Porsche).

I think an important element to a timeless supercar is that it has to be completely bespoke and different from any other production model in the lineup. If we look at the most successful and desirable supercars this is pretty much a constant theme (F40, Enzo, Porsche 959 etc) with a few rare exceptions like the 288. The body, chassis, interior, and usually the engine are unique to that model and cannot be mistaken for anything else. In addition, as has been mentioned already, the performance has to be on another level compared to the competitors. Neither of the competitor-trumping performance nor the bespokeness is present in the 599GTO, so a betting man would probably not gamble on the car remaining at the top of the collector 'want' list for a long period.

Unfortunately it also seems like this is a trend for modern day cars, the technology moves too quickly and does not allow the time for the image of a great car to mature in the marketplace. The days of collectible cars may be numbered ..

 

Interesting thread. The only point I would like to add is that I personally do not feel that any cars are really capable of being really so dominant. This is a very special time for extreme performance cars and the cars now are not drivable to anywhere close to their performance limits and a few tenths 0 to 60 and faster shifting just doesn't factor into anything but bragging rights.
If personality and the feel of the car weren't the real factors in determining greatness this would be the Bugatti Veyron forum. I believe that is the only modern car to demolish the competition and (no offense intended as it is a great car) but in my opinion is considered by most as almost a freak of nature as opposed to the most desirable wheels on the planet.
All just my opinion.
Btw having been a complete obsessed Ferrari nut for at least 40 of my 53 years I think one of the most unique things about the GTO is the observation that buyers are really personalizing these cars to a level I have never seen. This leads me to believe most lucky buyers think it's a keeper to a whole new level.

 

If I had a buck every time I heard an owner say they would never sell a Stradale, well you know the rest! The GTO is a special car, just like the Murci SV, 16M,Scud etc. They are all the limited edition tweaked version of the outgoing model. Will they hold value better than the standard version of what they are? Of coarse they will. Will many owners that just bought and say they won't sell and have been offered large sums over msrp end up selling due to change of heart or to get the latest and greatest or other reasons? Happened with all the above. I personally don't think any modern car will go up in value except the next real ferrari supercar. (Enzo replacement)