Inspection Trouble

Friends,

Bought the car from Ferrari of San Diego and it had "CEL" from the time it was dropped off by the transport company. Dealer claimed it might be due to low battery since the car was in transit for more than 13days. Car has been on tender since - almost 10days.

Did the battery re-cycle and also cleared the codes using the OBD2 reader. It is a P0420 code -pics attached. The code came back after driving a few miles in both instances. Yes, the gas cap is air tight..no debris or cracked seal.

I been talking to Steve from AMNE & also a bunch of folks from FNE - Shawn, Michelle and Micheal. They were not sure about the legalities but offered to diagnose the issue.

My question is - I bought the car from CA, if the car is not passing Inspection in MA...isn't the Dealer responsible for any costs associated with it?
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How long do you give it to warm up before you drive it, ie just let it tick over

 

20mins....no gas...no ac...no radio...just on idle.

 

let me be clear...it was 20mins - afetr the battery recycle.

Normal days - 5-10mins before take off

 

They don't mention anything about the dealer being out of state, but I would guess that complicates things.

"The Lemon Aid Law: This law allows you to void or cancel a motor vehicle contract or sale if your vehicle fails to pass inspection within seven days from the date of sale AND if the estimated costs of repairs of emissions or safety related defects exceed 10% of the purchase price. This law applies to both dealer and private party sales of cars and motorcycles purchased for personal or family use. The vehicle must be returned to the seller within 14 days from the date of sale."

 

What year is the car? The federal emissions warranty is longer than the new car warranty, so that may cover whatever is wrong with it.

Massachusetts law would cover Massachusetts dealers and they would be beholden to correct the issue or buy the car back ... check California law as that is where the sale took place.

 

I think vjd3 has a good point with the federal emissions warranty -- I would investigate that. Don't know what the seller's obligation might be.

Several of my non-Ferrari cars have thrown P0420 codes before.

In most cases there's a front ("upstream", pre-cat) O2 sensor and one ("downstream") after the cat. The front O2 sensor measures O2 in the exhaust as part of the loop to set mixture, and the downstream sensor is just used for emissions diagnosis. AFAIK, the computer looks for some ratio and correlation in their values over time.

A P0420 doesn't necessarily mean that the cat is bad, it could be the rear O2 sensor is under-responding or there could be an air leak, so the fix may be rather trivial. Gas cap shouldn't have anything to do with this code. In my case it was a bad rear O2 sensor on two occasions, and a bad cat in one instance. (The latter on a Subie with close to 300k miles -- it was due.)

 

My car does not meet the 8yr law...it expired on Mar 16 2016


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guys - what does this mean? Did it pass smog or no?
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Turning the battery off doesn't fix anything, other than set your monitors to "not ready." There are seven monitors. Having a monitor be "not ready" in itself is not a problem. Whereas, having a CEL on is. This code and its sister P0320 are typically due to a problem with the cats, precats or the wideband O2 sensors. As I know both the folks and the shops that you've spoken to, I'm struggling to understand why either one would have any difficulty in diagnosing or repairing this problem. Who's going to pay for it is another question altogether...

PM me if you need further assistance.

 

Is that from your PPI? The car did not pass because of the readiness monitors not being set, as mentioned above. There is a specific procedure recommended to cause the monitors to set after the battery is disconnected from the car, involving cold starts, idling, driving at constant revs for set periods of time. You can try that, or you can just drive the car around for a few days and eventually the monitors should set themselves ... or it will throw a CEL light if there's a problem. If it was a Ferrari Approved car it should not have passed its inspection in that state.

It's a fairly common trick to disconnect the battery or use an OBD2 code reader to clear any check engine lights before selling a car ... the seller doesn't know until it's time to get the car emissions tested or the CEL trips.

What does the dealer in CA say? They were required to obtain a California smog certificate in order to sell the car legally. Looks like they were unable to do so as of that service.

This has nothing to do with your car, but the Porsche 993 had a lot of problems with the secondary air injection system clogging and throwing check engine lights, and it was expensive to repair, so it was not uncommon to find unscrupulous sellers resetting the CELs or even just removing the bulb from the gauge so the check engine light would not be revealed. The car ran fine but it would not pass inspection. I went through hell with a 993 I bought, driving around till the monitors all set and then rushing to the closest Mass. inspection station to get the sticker before it threw another CEL. Failed twice, got it the third time. Light came back on 2 miles later. A nearby Maserati dealer (no longer exists) charged the previous owner a fortune to "fix" the problem, changing various hoses and the MAF, but nothing they did actually addressed it, other than removing the bulb from the gauge, which I found out after the fact. Once I got the sticker, I wound up doing the top end on the motor, replacing the valve guides, and never had a problem again.

Take it to Steve or to Sean, they will easily figure out what's wrong with it. You should have recourse with the Ferrari dealer in CA, so I might have Sean call them about the car Ferrari dealer to Ferrari dealer.

 

Steve is currently working on it @ AMNE. Sean could not fit me in until Aug 21st - they are packed The sales guy at Ferrari of San Diego is Matt Bang and the sales manager is Fernando.

I have called them so many times but no reply. They are either in a meeting or with a client. I am truly disappointed with their attitude after the sale. How can they be so freaking cold? I have a car they sold which wont pass inspection and I don't get any help from them

 

I think you should cut and paste this post into a new thread in the Southern California forum. Maybe it will embarrass them into at least returning your call.

BTW, Steve and Dave at AMNE are top notch. I'm sure they'll get it sorted out.

 

I have a thread posted there as well Finally getting some traction on the issue from the dealer. Spoke to a service tech last night. Dealer is going to call the local dealer to take care of it. After a freaking month, I get some movement..better late than never

 

Great to meet you James... Welcome to the family!

Thanks for trusting us to sort out the 430.
See you at Tutto
Steve
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Friends..update on my issue..

Aston Martin of New England - Steve and Dave have been awesome to work with. They did the following diagnosis:

P0420 Catalytic converter efficiency, Bank 1 stored in the RH bank motronic ECU.
-Engine is running normally
-The rear O2 sensors were swapped bank to bank and the same error returned on the RH bank
-fuel trim and lambda parameters within normal range and similar readings to LH bank. (if the fuel trim was off it should set a fault code)
-Visual inspection of front of the RH bank pre-cat in the manifold through the front O2 sensor hole shows no problems.
-Removed the RH bank main catalytic conv and the cat internals look normal.
-Visual inspection of the pre-cat from the back looks normal as well.
-No signs of contamination in the exhaust/cats.

AMNE was in constant touch with Ferrari of San Diego's service tech during the diagnosis. We hit a point when the car had to be taken to the local Ferrari dealer, Ferrari of New England to open a case with FNA. FSD called and spoke to FNE and pulled a favor to take me in ASAP. Dropped the car on Monday - Aug 15th. I have been talking to Shawn and Michelle at FNE so they already knew my story already. Michael - Service Manager at FNE is great, he has been following up with FSD.

Yesterday FNE has determined that there is a leak in the CAT after a smoke test. Parts and labor for replacing the CAT is about $9K. Waiting to hear from FSD on next steps. Apparently Italy is closed for the entire month of August so I am looking at atleast 3 weeks out for the part to arrive....unless, there is a dealer in the US who has one lying around.

My first Ferrari and what a roller-coaster ride so far

 

I have a similar story. CA car brought east. CEL light, same code as yours. Quoted $9,500 from dealer to replace cat. What is it with these CA cars? They must not like to come east. In my case the CEL went off long enough after recycle to pass the test, but came back on after. I'm sure dealer (Miller) did not test O2 sensors before quoting for new cat, so I think I'll try that first. Mine's a 2000 360.

 

So if there is a leak in the cat but it is otherwise good, why not just weld up the leak?