Mileage depreciation

I’m a long-time porsche buyer but new to the Ferrari world. I’m looking at 458 spiders in the UK (I’m also new to the UK; recently moved from NY). If I’m going to pile maybe 5kmi on a 458 spider of similar specs over the course of 2yrs (then sell it), am I better off buying a 2013 with 8kmi for £180k or a 2013 with 20kmi for £150k, when it comes to depreciation/cost of ownership. I’ve learned to not be scared of miles in the Porsche world when it comes to mechanical condition, ESPECIALLY if a 1-owner car. Some of the best cars I’ve bought have been higher mileage 1-owner porches. Some of the worst mechanics condition cars I’ve had have been older, delivery mile cars.

But I recognize the Ferrari world is different. Mileage carries a steep, steep penalty. Obviously they blow up beyond 20kmi . Is it just flat out hard to sell a 20kmi 458 regardless of price? Or if priced correctly is it less impacted by additional mileage since it’s already past the dreaded 20kmi worthless milestone?




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Personally, when I'm buying a car, any car, mileage is only relevant as an indicator of general wear and tear of the things I can "see" (i.e. interior, paint, wheels, etc.). If all of the required services have been performed, and the car has been properly maintained by an owner that reflects pride of ownership, I'm not reluctant to purchase a higher than normal mileage car. Many Ferrari's fit this category.

That said, there is clearly a bias in exotics when it comes to mileage, it has developed overtime and it is real. Many potential buyers will not even consider a Ferrari with mid-level mileage (20 - 30K miles). When someone's being asked to pay north of $150K for a car, what's another $20k to $40k for a low mileage model? I think that's one of the thoughts behind the decision of many buyers to only look at low mileage cars, and why we see such large price reductions in exotics with 20K+ mileage. Another factor seems to be that so many owners keep their cars garaged for other reasons (perhaps they're afraid to drive on the streets??), and this eventually leads to a lot of low mileage exotics in the marketplace, further affecting the value of the cars that are actually being driven by their owners.

To be clear here, my position is based on how I drive my Ferrari's. I drive mine regularly, almost everyday, with no consideration for the mileage I'm accruing. It is what it is, I bought it to drive it. I take care of the car. I have done the usual films and ceramic coatings, have it professionally detailed regularly, don't eat or drink in it, have infrequent passengers, etc.. Will that help maintain the value when they eventually sell to someone else? Very doubtful, unless I find someone that thinks like me, but the inherent problem there is that this person will undoubtedly be planning to drive the car as well, and that means considering the miles already on the car..........

If you plan to drive it, you're likely better off with the 2013 8K miles car, IMO.


Jim

 

Thanks. I have a 12kmi CGT and 11kmi 997 4.0. Most would consider that high mileage for those vehicles. But I hope I die with 50kmi on each. But it’s a different proposition. I’ll never sell those cars so it’s my daughters problems when I’m gone. The 458 spider is a short term fling while I’m living in the UK for a few years. So short-term resale is a bigger concern than something in my “perma-collection” in the US. Depreciation is 2nd to logging the experience which is why I’m buying it. But no reason to at least be educated about potential cost of ownership on options I’m considering. I know all the inflection points and which cars are more/less sensitive in the P world. I owned a 430 briefly a few years ago. But other than that, I’m still inexperienced with F and more timid than usual at pulling trigger. That being said, weather is finally getting nice; more likely that i just get one in my garage sooner rather than later and worry about the cost after I’ve had a smile plastered to my face with top down and 9k redline flat plane crank howling behind my head.


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You hit the nail on the head here........in the end it won't make a difference so maximize the opportunity to enjoy this season.....never know what tomorrow brings.

 

I think the higher mileage cars appeal to a smaller buying pool. Personally when I buy a pleasure car to drive simply for enjoyment I want that car to be perfect like a new car. And a car with 20 or 30k miles does not appeal to me I would rather pay more and have a cream puff. To me a cream puff tastes better than and old stale cookie.

 

I put aprox 18,000 miles on my 2012 spider in 3 years and my cost of ownership was 5.33 $ per mile. But the smiles and grins on my dumb face was priceless. Best , Kirk.

 

Ferrari’s cost a lot but they also give a ton of fun too - just depends how much you value the fun .. depreciation is just something we live with

 

Spend some time on Pistonheads for a UK perspective - not just threads but their classified and see what mileages 2011 458 are being sold with to get a feel for 2013 458 spider sellability in a couple of years - another factor is that then there will still be new 488 spider to support the price

(There's a main dealer 2010 with 24000 miles and others similar with first division specialists so clearly there is a market)

 

Great post, Jim.

I think depreciation is only natural when talking about a car, but I think it's rather unfair that it kills value in a Ferrari in the way it does.

These cars are meant to be driven and enjoyed. And then we penalise the people who did just that. On account of mileage alone? Something so relative... You have track miles, city traffic miles, highway miles...

Modern Ferraris are very sturdy, dependable and reliable... And also A LOT of fun, much more than any other Ferrari of any other era, in my humble opinion.

30 or 40.000 kms or miles on a 308 GTB aren't the same as the same kms/miles on a 458 or 488. Yet, our notion and the weight those kms/miles carry in terms of depreciation has more or less stayed the same over the course of all the decades that separate one car and the others I mentioned.

When all things are considered and when we pause to think what it's all about, the importance of mileage in a Ferrari and how it relates to depreciation has to be redefined and we need to rethink our assumptions on the matter in general as a whole.

My 2 cents anyway.

Kind regards,

Nuno.

P.S.: At one point, in my neck of the woods, you had two nearly identical Ferraris: one with 50.000 kms and another showing merely 12.000km on the clock. Funny enough, no one would touch the 50.000km one because of mileage, and most people were all over the 12.000km. Little did they know that the 50.000km one was always properly taken care of at the specified intervals at the official dealer, and the 12.000km and just ONE owner had been fitted with 3 F1 clutches already, because that owner used the car mainly for cold engine burnouts and other stunts of the sort.

 

personal preference, desirability etc. aside, these 2 cars prob experience similar depreciation at the end of 2 years. 458 is commonly regarded as a reliable ferrari (even just comparing to the previous f430), so 20kmi is not all that high (different story if the car is 50kmi). Ferrari made a lot of these and you can find a lot of cars with 5k-35k mi range. Since there's a lot of them, there should be a lot more depreciation to go for the higher valued cars, while the cheaper ones will continue to depreciate with maybe a slower rate the closer it is to the floor pricing (average f430 pricing). So 2 years later u prob lose £20k on either cars. If you just want to experience the car for 2 years, trash it have fun and move on, I would go with the cheaper one so you can use the £30k elsewhere and not park it for 2 years in the car (assuming paying cash). If you really love this car and plan to keep it longer, I would go with the lower mileage one since it prob has less cosmetic wear(not always true, conditions vary). IMO these 2 cars will have similar insurance, maintenance, depreciation and upkeep.

 

I’ve never looked at the mileage on mine or worried about driving it.
My first 458 I worried. Now I drive.

 

UK is much different market than US concerning mileage depreciation so I am told. Condition and spec are my primary concerns but no experience in short term ownership. In the US the lower mileage, better condition, better spec and warrantee are the drivers IMO. You need to look at the UK local markets if so concerned about money. Maybe stick with the P cars so you can manage your risk more confidently.

 

i worried at first then realized how pointless it was to worry and just drove the car and whatever hit i take i take. if you are worried this much stick with the porsche

 

To help my head I look at it this way ... take what you paid in my case way more than I had too 20k + because I liked the color combo and spec... depreciate it to zero ... pay cash and see it as a total loss ... then use it freely, respect it for the craftsmanship etc but use it ... sell it and consider it a windfall [emoji3][emoji1303]. Listen a buddy just died sitting on the couch making a spring summer to do list with his wife. I bet his last thought wasn’t trade value. These things are toys not Investments rarely does anyone make money and it’s not the point. Just my two cents saving cars I always ask for what? Today is your best DAY yesterday you cannot relive and tomorrow is not a promise... live every minute!

 

To be clear, I’m not losing sleep over this question; just curious about feedback from a group with more knowledge than me on Ferrari world. My first objection is to get into a car spec’d to my liking and in good condition, as the weather turns nice. Not going to worry about depreciation after I get the car; gonna drive it. But no harm asking about it before I pull the trigger.


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I’m also looking a scud and CS this coming wkend. Given I’m a big RS fan, I’m guessing the CS/scud/Speciale driving experience might be my cup of tea.


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Interesting I would like to know you thoughts in comparing the CS and the Scud ... I previously owned a scud I loved it but after a while I wanted something s little more modern and convertible I went with the 458 spider ... I absolutely love it... too down with the race seats and that engine in your ear ... to me it is hard to beat! But please let us know your thoughts once you have driven them and compared.

 

When I buy, I put cars with a higher reasonable mileage (anything up to 5k per year say) ahead of those with low mileage. I save money, plus I get a car which has been used as intended, with a better chance of the bugs having been worked out. I know I'm in the minority!

 

OMG. I drove a CS this weekend. Done! I’m a sucker for the light-weight track variants. CS oozed emotion and thrills. Also, I was surprised how solid/stable it was for a 2003. I owned a 430 Berlinetta and remember it feeling a little rickety on build quality and a little numb compared to my usual gt3/RS experiences. The CS didn’t have any of those drawbacks and it is on an even older platform (360). I plan to do a CS, then scud, then Speciale. I kept my P Spyder for my convertible option.


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2018 488 spider I got three months ago and I’m almost at 1800 miles and I don’t care about the hit because I bought a Ferrari and I think a greater loss would be to not drive it.

 

That’s it

 

I get it when people ask about miles those answers come up. But the cost is something some in our community factor in. I do. Not that it prevents me from driving. I have over 46k miles on 3 Ferraris now. But it is a question.

When someone asks which red is better ( silly question on purpose), answering I like blue is, well kinda , off the mark and perhaps rude. I

As I look at value- my next driver will be a F12. If I plan 5k per year should I take the discount on a 2015 with 15-20k miles now and have a car with 35 k miles in 3 years? Or pay more for a car with 4000 miles and then my hit in 3 years is less? Not all male related costs are linear. Y’all know this fact. As mentioned above, while nota stale old cookies, high mileage Ferraris with multiple owners are harder to sell and their cost is higher in the end. How much? Depends on model etc. but the costs of ownership even with all maintenance are high when things fail. Such as motor mounts, oil pumps and air conditioning and least of all transmissions. The threat of some high ticket failure drive the high mileage cars down tremendously.

My sense is f I’m keeping forever it doesn’t matter but if I’m keeping shorter term as the OP was, it’s better to keep total miles under 20k or it’s a steep hit at 30k miles. In the US, the 30 K 458s sell for 150 vs 165 for coupes with 20 ish miles. In the end it is less than $2-3 dollars per mile in retail. But one infers wholesale pricing is much lower as the higher mile cars tend to wind up on auctions. Anyone have the manheim data who feels like commenting?


What did you do jrtaylor?


Scotts

 

Totally agree. I want to pile the miles on my F12.

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Which P spyder are you referring to?

 

That's a lot of figuring right there. I don't think $15K is a big hit. Its around the cost of just extending the bumper-bumper warrantee for two years on a V12 and that's without driving a single mile. Maybe go Porsche?