Mondial Alternatives

Visited a friends very elaborate car collection, some truly beautiful and very valuable cars, both iconic classics and near moderns. I drove my Mondial 3.2 Cab on a nice long drive to the facility, and on the way back I was feeling very satisfied with my FCar choice. Despite the astounding cars I had seen I was quite happy to be back in my Mondial. Hard to explain, and perhaps it was because so many nice cars together to some extent mutes the feel of uniqueness of each one? Or maybe its just the magic of the Mondial I admit the Lusso stirred my emotion, it is art and smaller in size than I expected. And the Daytona restoration was flawless, an impressive example. Lot's of supercars old and new. An absolutely first class and well curated collection maintained to museum standard. I didn't take many pictures, too interested in the cars themselves, and was enjoying socializing with the owner, here is the one shot I took.

We should all appreciate owning rolling art like our Mondial's, I have had mine for a decade and take it for granted. They really are period icons of style for their time.
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Are you referring to a mid-engined, 2+2 alternative? If so, then your options are pretty limited - Evora? Are there any others?

I honestly don't believe that there are any real alternatives to the Mondial. There isn't another affordable, classic, mid-engined V8, Pininfarina-designed, 2+2 Italian around. There are other cars that have a nice, loyal following, but none of them have the unique package of the Mondial. I love them! Where else can you get the history and mystique of the marque combined with a classic, affordable, competent platform with that incredibly sonorous V8 AND extra seats in the back to take the family along for the fun?

2cam

 

Yes and for a great price where you are not afraid to drive them.

 

I'm seriously considering part exing mine for a DB9...

 

A much different car, but stunning in its own way. If you can find the relatively rare manual, you will still have a pretty rare car.

Regards,
Jerry

 

Lotus Excel SE is from the same era as the Mondial and looks very similar.
The Mondial inside feels more saloon like and open. The Lotus feels more poised and connected to the road with way more grip and better brakes. The Lotus doesn't have a V8 but it's engine is a real thoroughbred, like on the original Mondial the Lotus is a 4 but it's every bit as fast as the Mondial in a straight line and will easily beat the Mondial in the curves. Interior fit and finish on both cars is about the same, but I prefer the quality of the Lotus. Corrosion well the Lotus is hot dipped gavenised and is composite so never corrodes, the Ferrari does....
Safety, the Lotus is a much stronger and safer car than the Ferrari, the Lotus has massive side impact protection.... the Ferrari has none at all.
Styling, well here I think the Ferrari just beats the Lotus but only just, the Lotus once driven cannot be ignored or ever forgotten BUT drive a good one on the correct tyres!!
Price, well the Lotus is 1/4 of the cost of the Ferrari. Running costs are minimal the engine, gearbox and diff are bullet proof. Unlike the Esprit, the Excel engine is non turbo and is simple too rated at 190bhp the car is lighter than the Ferrari.
In short it's a serious same era alterative to the Ferrari that is an incredible performance car that feels more modern than the Ferrari whilst retaining some of that old word charm.
Regards Bell

 

I sort-of been thinking about a Lotus addition to my garage lately. I have German and Italian cars, but no British.

Having said that, the one Lotus that kinda fires me up - is a weird one. The Europa. Weird looking car, but it's one of the first Lotus that I had the opportunity to see close up, and it kinda stuck with me.

Also like the Esprit, all the versions.

When I get serious (have to finish the Mondial interior first), I'm gonna go try them on for size. I'm not a small guy (5'11'', 220lbs) and want to make sure I fit! Gotta do some research also, as I know virtually nothing about the brand, cars and history.

Sid

 

The one other car I considered that was close...was the Lotus Evora...

I'm glad I didn't.

Not a convertible
Let's face it - it has the same exact engine as my Toyota Sienna (no seriously)
I don't think I would have anywhere near the same community as I have with you fine gentlemen as a Lotus owner
No F1 experience (Lotus F1 is just in name only - has no connection to Proton)
The Mondial is already at base camp of relevance...no further loss or depreciation

 

OK WOW ha ha!!
Paul, it is widely documented that Lotus have done more for F1 than Ferrari ever did. Lotus are true innovators of the sport right from the moment Colin Chapman entered the sport Ferrari and other teams were forced to imitate the Lotus ideas or get left behind.
Lotus produced the first monocoque F1 car, the first, winged F1 car and the first ground effect car.
Lotus were pioneers in the use of composites in both F1 and road applications.
Colin Chapmans own obsession of performance through lightness was something Enzo didn't really suscibe to but ultimately Chapman was right and he proved it on the track by beating Ferrari time over for more than 2 decades. Chapmans philosophy can really be felt when you drive a Lotus road car wow can you feel it!
I could go on but I won't suffice to say, look at a modern F1 car and then look at a Lotus 72 they look very similar, other cars of that era had no wings at all.
In 1967 Lotus started putting wings on their cars front and rear for downforce, a year later the other teams Ferrari included started to do the same.
Anyway Lotus F1 kind of died when Colin did but his philosophy is very strong within the road car company....'Performance through lightness' In short a 1 ton car with 100bhp will run rings around a 2 ton car with 200bhp.
It's why I dispare at the current crop of Fat Ferraris weighing in at 1900kg, they've lost the plot completely and have moved so far away from F1 philosophy I wonder if they will ever come back.
Regards Bell.
Ps. Ferrari Dino engine has Fiat written all over it. ;-)

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding! When I say no F1 experience, I mean as in now/today, Lotus F1 circa 2015 (not the very accomplished lotus of old, completely agree with you)..that's why I mentioned Proton.

I want to own a car that is part of a marque that is currently involved in F1, as a fan of the sport - I like rooting for a marque I own. There is something really cool about rooting for a team where you 'own' a part of their heritage/history. With Lotus exiting F1 in 1994 - I simply can't go to a Lotus dealership (like my Ferrari Dealership) and root for my team.

The *current team* has no relation to the Lotus of old. They are 100% just using the name from a licensing perspective. I had to do a double take when I learned this.

I'll say it again - the Lotus F1 today that competed last week in Brazil has zero, 0, nada, relation to Lotus Cars outside them first having paid them a 'royalty fee.' to use the name (which was in dispute) see the article below

Source: Lotus Cars and Lotus F1 embroiled in naming rights dispute

They eventually were able to use the Lotus name using a back door legal maneuver acquiring "Lotus Ventures" from David Hunt.

Today's Lotus F1 Team has as much connection to Lotus F1 of old/Lotus cars as a Hyundai.

Here is another article about the legal battles....
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/13572332

Crazy huh!?

Furthermore - the 'Pseduo Lotus Team" will die next year once Renault requires the assets
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/30/renault-lotus-f1-confirmation/
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/renault-looking-to-abu-dhabi-for-f1-announcement/

 

A DB9. Really? Thats a dozen car. Loads around & never the head turner of any Ferrari. Ferraris are in a class of their own.

 

I had a Europa when I was 20 years old! Young, slim and flexible. You may fit, if you can get in, but it is very tight in there. I don't think they are much taller than a GT-40, if at all.

I got in one a couple of years ago, I am 6'4", 200. I don't know how I did it as a kid 15 lbs lighter, lol!
Alden

 

Ha ha hi Paul, I really went in off the deep end on that one!
Yes you are right the Lotus F1 team now is just in name only, such a shame.
But the Lotus road cars are amazing to drive however the styling doesn't match the Italian stuff
Like Alfa Romeo or the 458 Ferrari cars. The V12 Ferrari cars are for me quite hideous...heavy and hideous, but the V8 car is a gem and the new 488 looks even better.
I think as a last hoorah to the petrol engine, and before everything goes electric, Ferrari should show what they are really made of and produce a 458 type car with a 4 litre mid mounted V12 engine.
The car should weigh no more than 900kg and power output should be a conservative 500bhp.
This would be a proper drivers car with paddle shift option but no servo on the brakes and no power steering.
Minimum overhang front and rear for a low polarmoment of inertia.
Basically a modern day F40 with a V12 and a sensible price tag unlike the La Ferrari.
C'mon Ferrari build us a light glorious sounding mid mounted V12 car that screams F1 not the crappy big old fat cat V12 cars you are making now.

 

.

If you are looking for a project car...

1967 Porsche 912 for sale #1789903 | Hemmings Motor News

 

That will buff out...................

Regards,
Jerry

 

Where was this thing found? Looks like it's been on the bottom of a lake for a few decades. I don't think this is restorable. Maybe cut out the ID plates and create an entire new car?

Too much of a "project" for me.

Sid

 

... that's the 'after' shot. You should have seen it before beverly hills car club gave it a makeover.

A soft window 912 targa (preferbaly without windows as 'soft' as that one) is the other thing on my shopping list if i can't find a nice 1986 mondial cab.

The list of 2+2 classic convertibles that i like the look of within my price range is a small one.

Maybe i should by another fiat 124 spider and extend the house instead.

 

sorry for my rash post!! It was written so poorly - I can see why you thought I went off the deep end. I have great respect for Lotus, my dream is for them to return.

I am a disciple off Chapman's phrase "add lightness"



Be well!

 

Watch it! Thems is fightin words!

 

My two non Ferrari alternatives to the Mondial were/are very different cars. Both are awesome but ultimately I wanted a Ferrari.

One was the Porsche 912. I love these cars but as with most great cars, prices have shot up dramatically in the last year or so. I think a realistic value is around $40-50k, but people are asking as much as $80k. I'm not sure those prices will hold, but they won't drop back down to $15-$25k either.

My second alternative was an MGB GT. Pininfarina styling and beautiful big greenhouse windows. Just beautiful little cars. The trouble is that (as with the Mondial) they have been so cheap for so long most of them are in pretty bad condition. Also, I know almost nothing about British cars, so I even though I'm told they're cheap to own and operate, my total lack of knowledge made me hesitant to pull the trigger for fear of getting a total lemon.

I'm still searching for both and if I find the right one, some lucky SOB is going to get another $300 a month for parking from me. Have I mentioned how much I want to leave NYC lately? Arg.

My F car alternative was the 456, which I'd also love to get and now seems to be the time. But big car/no bumpers in NYC means destroyed paint in 2 weeks. And the V12 is pricier to run than the V8, plus the Mondial is so quirky and unique looking. Lots of cars look similar to the 456.

 

Hey Paul, I'm hugely overprotective of Lotus even though we have 2 Ferrari cars.
Like the Mondial, Lotus cars got a bad rap.
In the 60s and 70s reliability was the issue with Lotus, but then in those days what cars weren't unreliable...
The thing that everyone failed to find out with Lotus is just how increadible the handling really is.
Once in a full on slide the Lotus becomes 'other worldly ' over other cars, theres no sawing at the wheel, no weight transfer, both the Esprit and Excel feel playfully natural.
There is an incredible sense of feel in the steering and command even in the slide and of course you still have throttle steering also.
I've had my Esprit V8 in full on sideways drifts at over 120mph first time out and never spun once
Ps. It was on the Top Gear track not on the road ha ha.
Wanted to film the Mondial drifting in the wet but I can't get up there these days.... Damn it!!

 

interesting dave, we share a fondness for mondials and 912s, but to my mind the mg, (especially the gt but i don't like the ragtops either) is one of the fugliest cars ever! Underpowered, drives like a cart. To my mind they're all lemons!

Maybe because they have always been 10 a penny over here in the uk clouds my judgement... and I did have a the 124 spider... a vastly superior car in every respect... well bar rust prevention and electrics.

They never sold 124's in the Uk, and they're common as muck in the states, so people stateside may hold the reverse view!

On the plus side, MG parts are cheap and plentiful and they have a loyal following... for reasons that completely defeat me http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

 

Ha, that's funny. I always say that if the MGB GT wore a Ferrari or a Dino badge (and maybe a nicer interior), it would be a $300k car based on looks alone!!! At least we have solidarity around German and Italian cars.

My first car was a Fiat 2000 Spider. Paid $1900 for it in 1990. I loved that car but when I started moving all over the world in my early 20's, the car had to go. I wish I still had it today.

 

Thanks Bell_Bloke
I meant no disrespect, in fact I was considering a Lotus Evora. I have nothing but love for the brand. I think they make fantastic cars. Another car I was close to buying was the Lotus Elan too! The Lotus Esprit is one of my all time favorites - that is an icon to me!!

I wish Lotus a speedy return to F1!



Cheers

 

Well it would be boring if we agreed on everything I guess!

Cracking cars spiders, I had a pininfarina as I had 'young man snob value' against the fiat badge but the early chrome bumper cars are the lookers.

I had an early triumph spitfire as a kid... It was largely held together with chewing gum and bailer twine but I loved it. Always preferred the michelotti lines on the to the mg.

As you're a coupe man, could we find common ground on its sister, the gt6?
http://www.triumphspitfire.com/images/cars/langkamp2.jpg