PORSCHE FAQ

Rob has agreed to make this a sticky that can be left open for posting new additions from members who wish to elaborate on any topic of interest, or for posting questions that members think should be on the FAQ, and I, or others, will answer in due course. You will note that I didn't get into specific model related and extremely detailed FAQ issues, as there is already a wealth of that kind of information already available on a couple of superb Porsche specific boards, in much more detail than I have provided here.

1 - What is the difference between an air cooled and a water cooled 911, and which one should I buy ?

Porsche has been building water cooled engines for their sports cars since 1975, starting with the 924 series, followed by the 928, 944, 968, right into the present day with the Boxster, Cayman, Cayenne, and now the Panamera.

Their foray into water cooling the 6 cylinder engine of the world famous 911 series started with the 959, whose power plant featured an air cooled block mated to water cooled heads. In 1997, Porsche introduced the Boxster, a model with a water cooled flat 6 cylinder engine based on the 911 design, which would prove to be the technological test bed that would take the next model of 911 into the future. In 1999 a variant of the 911, known internally as the 996, was the first Porsche to feature a fully water cooled flat 6 cylinder engine. And thus, the great debate had begun…………ergo, to many Porschephiles……….”what is the meaning of life ?”

A water cooled 911 still has the basic 6 cylinder flat boxer engine, albeit somewhat slightly redesigned, as well as the oil sump with its prodigious oil capacity of the earlier air cooled cars, in addition however to now requiring engine coolant, a water pump, radiators, and all of the associated hardware and plumbing. The end result of this is a much quieter but more powerful engine, which easily met the new strict European noise drive by regulations, as well as the incoming emission guidelines, that a 4 valve air cooled engine could not have done under any circumstances. That, in a nutshell, is the difference.

Which one should you buy ? Well, first some perspective. A current model water cooled bone stock 997 will absolutely dominate any of the previous model of air cooled non-turbo bone stock cars on a race track. The same can be said for the 996/997 GT3 or Turbo/GT2 variants over the predecessors. They are just more powerful, more refined and much better cars all around on paper and the track. Time and technology does that, whether you like it or not. Drive a Ferrari 328 and then a 430……same concept, better execution. Subjectively though, when it comes to the optical dynamics and driving experience you will hear the air cooled crowd sing the praises of their cars as loud as they can. I like them both, and having personally sold over 1,000 Porsches in my career I can say with some statistical accuracy that the “perceived differences” of the two cars insofar as it relates to the question at hand is going to come down to your individual taste, and nothing more, as it specifically relates to your budget, desired driving experience, and ones emotional draw towards the brand.

The air cooled cars are noisier, lighter, smell different, are harder to drive fast, require more muscle to do so, handle slightly differently at the limits, are less forgiving, and are less powerful. They also look a lot different. These are not negatives, or positives. They do not cost any more, or any less really, to maintain and service than the water cooled ones. I have paid more service department work orders and rebuilt more engines and transmissions than any individual owner possibly could in their lifetime, due to my background as a dealer selling these cars for 20 years. Again, the statistics speak for themselves.

The 996 and 997 series feel quite different on all counts, but this is not a negative factor in the slightest for either car, and if you have enough seat time in each, you’ll know what I mean. It all comes down to what “you” want in your next 911.

So, get out there and drive as many of the air and water cooled cars as you can that are equally priced within your budget range, to help you make the decision which way you want to go. That is all you can really do…………debating the issue of which is better is just going to take away from the time that could be spent driving them………..and that is the only way you will really answer the question for yourself.

2 – Which Porsche model has the best resale value ?

Generally speaking the limited production, lower volume cars (such as a longnose 911 S, 911 RS, 930 Slantnose, 959, 968 RS Clubsport, 964 Speedster, 964 Turbo 3.6/Flachbau, 928 GTS, 993 C4S, 993 TT/Turbo S) the highest performance, lowest mileage, correctly optioned, well documented and “bone stock” examples of the car are the ones that perform well over long periods of time.

As you know, there are economic factors that always affect asset values which are beyond your personal control, but even then, the aforementioned variables still come into play.

Notice that I left out the 996 and 997 ? They are too commonplace and also too new to tell how well the special versions (GT2, GT3 RS) will hold up in the long run, except that it can be said, those thousands of garden variety 996 models are scraping the bottom of the barrel price wise right now.

3 – Do Porsches cost more or less than Ferrari’s to maintain ?

Well, neglect either of these two marques and it will cost you a bundle.

Perform regular fluid changes, scheduled maintenance and drive them often, and you’ll find yourself making fewer visits to the shop than you imagined. You can search “timing belt” on any of the Ferrari models here and there are stories of what it cost to do one every 3-5 years, as well as what it can cost, should you neglect to change one and the worst happens. Figures thrown around range from $3-7K for a belt/tensioner major service…..up to $15K once you open it up on a 12 cylinder car for example and fix what you find inside, “since you have it apart”……to a number as high as $30-60K for a complete engine rebuild.

For reference, 911’s have timing chains, but chain tensioners fail, engines leak, cylinder barrels get scored, burn thru at the base gasket, case halves leak, case half bolts leak, etc……….here are some rough numbers…….these pertain to air cooled cars, you know, the cheap ones that everyone loves.

Figure on 50-60 hours of labor to split and R+R the engine case on any air cooled 911, plus machine shop work as needed. Any good Porsche tech will charge you $100-20 an hour, and more at a dealer. A gasket kit is $1,300……..if you need cams, and they wear out….figure on $1,500+ for the pair, double that, or more, for race parts……a valve job and head rebuild is $2,000 if the engine is already apart, double that if it is not……..new pistons and cylinder barrels cost $3,000+ if the engine is apart………rod and main bearings $1,500…….a complete non-running 3.2 Carrera engine is worth $5,000 as it sits for parts. A clutch replacement cost $3,500………rear wheel bearings are $800 per side…….a major service is $1,500 plus whatever they find every 30,000 miles…….brake pads and rotors all around cost $2,500…….a front windshield runs $800 – 1,200 with the gasket and installation…….a sport exhaust is $2-3,000…….a 915 or G50 transmission rebuild is between $3,000 to $6,000……..depends on what you need……..on the newer water cooled cars, which have their own issues as well, a used, low mileage, but complete (less exhaust) 996 or Boxster engine can run you between $10-15,000 and a transaxle is $5,000+ from a dismantler, plus labor to R+R.

A balls to the wall, cost no object, all out, the best of everything, normally aspirated 3.5 litre air cooled and aftermarket fuel injected racing engine is $35,000 at dead wholesale cost, and you’ll pay $45,000 and up at retail…….add another $15,000 more for turbo variants.

4 – Is the 996 TT a good year round daily driver ?

Yes……….for the money you cannot buy more car in terms of technology, curb appeal, performance and safety.

Today you can buy an example for the low $40&#8217;s&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;maybe even high $30&#8217;s. A car that used to cost $150K +/-&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.has AWD, 400 HP, goes 175 MPH + is easily tuneable to a real world 600 HP for <$20K&#8230;&#8230;and you can carry your stuff in it. Want to spend half as much ? Get a regular 996 C4&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;there really &#8220;is no substitute&#8221; thanks to the magic of high volume, subjective appearance, and the resulting depreciation of the 996 marque.

I wouldn&#8217;t do that to a 993 TT though&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.there aren&#8217;t enough of those beautiful babies to go around.

5 &#8211; Why is the 996 so cheap ?

Perception is your friend, and for that we have to go back to the air cooled/water cooled debate.

The 996 was the first water cooled 911, it also looked exactly like the much cheaper Boxster from the front seats forward. It had the flat &#8220;fried egg&#8221; headlights and the flat fenders which were a dramatic departure from the much loved and classic 993/911 look. The cheaper plastic interior with its total redesign didn&#8217;t help either. But, it was also the most successful 911 to date sales wise. So they are plentiful and also now unloved, which makes them less expensive.

To wit, from 1980 to 1998 there were approximately 1,200 of the air cooled 911 sold throughout Canada in total&#8230;&#8230;yet from 1999-2004 there were roughly 5,000 of the 996 sold in less than 1/3 of the same time period. The US sales figures are also reflect this.

Wanna spend $25K on a new Chevy that will lose 50% of it's value in 15 minutes ? Or do you want a nice used Porsche 996, that will probably lose another 15% of it's value in a year or two ?

6 &#8211; Is the 911/930/993/996/997 really hard to drive at the limit ?

Isn&#8217;t almost every car ?

Think about that, you are revving at close to the maximum RPM on the tach, the suspension is loaded up laterally as you are cornering hard, you are on a familiar road with little margin for error when you have to suddenly steer out of the way of an object, brake, and reduce power in less than one second, all the while dramatically upsetting the physics of the car.

You better be good, and lucky&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.I&#8217;ve had to do that in an early 930 Turbo, a car with a deadly and undeserved reputation IMHO. I almost lost it completely, but as everything went into slow motion I kept myself together, my memory clicked in, and I steered out of it (I was 45 degrees sideways coming out of a corner at 120 KMH heading down a straight, with the engine screaming, and the tires smoking for about 100&#8217 because I did what some famous Porsche racing driver book said to do in a book, which was &#8220;don&#8217;t lift off the gas pedal and steer&#8221;&#8230;&#8230;..the exact opposite of what my brain told me to do based on my years of driving front engine rear wheel drive V8&#8217;s&#8230;&#8230;..I was lucky more than I was good, and I have no problem admitting that, because, I should not have been driving like that on this particular road. So was the 930 Turbo a bad car because of it ? Hell no&#8230;&#8230;..it did what it was supposed to based upon it&#8217;s design limits under those circumstances, and as a result I drove away unscathed except for the color of my shorts. If you are driving at 9.5 out of 10 near any cars limit&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;you are in the danger zone and it doesn&#8217;t matter what your name, or your ability is, we all crash eventually when &#8220;we&#8221; screw up, not the car.

If you are nervous, that is good, go to a controlled environment and practice on a skidpad and/or with professional instruction beside you. You will be amazed what these cars are capable of in terms of limits you never thought possible. Limits that surpass many a driver&#8217;s abilities.

7 &#8211; Who has won more Races ? Porsche or Ferrari ?

Porsche has won over 28,000 sanctioned racing victories in over 50 years, in the numerous classes in which their cars have been run&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;yet Ferrari utterly dominates Formula 1 racing unlike any other team can, a series in which Porsche has had little to no success of any kind.

Porsche has won the 24 Hours of Le Mans more times than any other manufacturer in the history of what many consider to be the most famous road race of all time. Ferrari has chosen not to enter Le Mans with an officially sanctioned factory effort for decades.

Each manufacturer has found there niche, and is almost unbeatable within it, subject to the rule book of the day.

 

Dear Porsche FAQ,

Is it true if the value stems do not line up with the Porsche crest that this voids the warranty?

Confused in Texas

 

No, but if the bottom of the Porsche crest which is located in the wheel center cap, does not point directly to the valve stem, there is hell to pay in quality control and Hubert (the wheel cap guy) does not get his beer at the lunch break.

 

Dear Porsche FAQ: is there a grass roots revolt out there against big fat wide heavy modern Porsche models? I keep seeing guys building mid 1970's to 1980's 911 models that have been de-contented ie. much weight has been removed by engineering light weight solutions to the heavy standard parts used when the cars were originally built. 911's under 2400 pounds give a very different driving experience compared to the computer aided over weight modern cars built today. Even comparing a stock 1976 930 with a 2009 997 Turbo would seem to represent a difference of 1,000 pounds? Not to mention the expanded girth that you have to contend with. I realize the rules and standards have evolved over the years but the longer lower, wider mantra has produced some strange results. Is overweight out now?
CH

 

Funny 'dat........been working on a new segment recently for this thread entitled "Porsche options - which ones are the best choices"...........based on what clients have ordered over the years and what seems to sell and enhance resale value/desirablility........and part of it was to be themed "are they worth the cost and the weight" etc........

 

Very well said...

 

IMHO........the answer is no, and there is not a trend towards lighter cars.

I believe that what you (and I) are seeing is the very few people with the means to do so building what they wanted and lusted after when they were kids, for a fraction of the cost of the real thing, that most would not want to drive on the road due to the rarity and prospect of financial loss should the unthinkable occur.

If the market existed in sufficient numbers to make it feasible, Porsche AG would be producing tens of thousands of the lighter 911 GT3 and RS models.........but what people are buying enmass are the loaded up 911's......just like the Ferrari F430 and 599.......please read on regarding options..............

 

1) Is it true there is a distinct possibility for early 996's to suffer engine failure? Turbos aren't a problem because they use a different block, correct ?
2) What is the deal with the sharp rise in prices on early (well maintained) 911s ( pre 74) and 356s ? Any reason in particular ?
3) No one should ever buy a 74 -77 2.7 unless... or is there an unless ...????
4) Are later 964s (92-94) a good deal or is it a better bet to pay the money and buy a 993 ?

Honestly don't know the answers to any of these questions.

 

PORSCHE OPTIONS..........

1-How do you decode them......?

http://www.kindel.com/porsche/options.asp

http://www.porschemag.com/

http://registry.rennlist.com/optioncode/optioncode.asp

There are numerous websites that have catalogued all of the various option codes used by Porsche over the last few decades, and I have linked the best ones above. There are many more which are also specific to certain models that you can find online thru GOOGLE.

You will normally find the option codes for a car in 3 places.......underneath the inside of front hood there will be a white sticker by the hood latch with the VIN, interior and exterior color codes and all of the option codes. On early cars (pre 996) this sticker is attached either at the port of entry during the initial vehicle check in, or by the dealer at the final PDI. So, in a very few cases it will be missing, but that is highly unlikely and if it is, you can probably take it as a sure sign (99%) that you are either looking at a car with a replacement hood panel installed, or one that has undergone a color change. On Caymans and Boxsters this sticker is also sometimes placed on the rear trunk engine body panel underneath the carpet.

Secondly, inside the ORIGINAL owners service booklet on the second or third page you will find a duplicate of this sticker, which was affixed at the port of entry. If this is missing, you are probably looking at a replacement service booklet, as they can be bought seperately, and therefore the veracity and authenticity of any stamps and written notes about services should be double checked with either the paper records, or at the corresponding facility, if there are any doubts. Recreations of service histories are common if books are lost, as it happens, but so is the fraudulent creation of records that do not exist as well, for obvious reasons.

Lastly, you can go to your local dealer with the VIN and ask the parts guy to print out the vehicle option list.......most will happily accomodate you for no charge. Often a box of donuts is the best introduction when making this request if you are not known to them.

When referring to the decoding of the "M" numbers as they are often called, please bear in mind that in some instances they may be different from model to model and in some cases, from year to year, althought this is rare.

"M" numbers that do not appear as 383 or 387 (these are the 1980's and early to mid 90's style sport seats for for example) can also show up as X99001.24..........and these are what are commonly referred to as "Exclusiv Options"........and are a little harder to decode due to their nature, as many are one off and unique to the car you may be looking at.

2-What options are valuable in that they either add to resale value or increase the desirability of a particular vehicle.......?

I am going to try to answer this generally as it is very subjective, and there are just way to many items to cover individually, so I will mainly address the most expensive options, as well as some of the "must haves" that IMHO from selling these cars since 1989 I know you just cannot do without...........and in no particular order the "must haves" are.......please feel free to ask about certain options as you see fit and I will try to answer you as time permits or send me a PM.

1-Sport seats........commonly available for under $1,000 each. You get the money back at resale time and your car is more desirable versus a car without them. Plain and simple, unless your buyer is a very large person, they will want this option. When I was the sales manager at the Porsche dealer we ordered them in every single car without question as did the national importer when requesting the open and unsold order build slots. You can easily resell them to other Porsche owners or swap them for regular seats if you want to change.

2-Heated seats........only a few hundred dollars per seat, and if you live in a climate with more than one season, or drive your car year round, you just gotta have them. We ordered them on every car. Easily installed with aftermarket kits at a cost of around $500 for both seats, if the car you are looking at does not have them.

3-Larger optional wheels.....if the early Carrera came with 15" Fuchs, you want the 16"......if it had 6 and 7" wide Fuchs wheels....you want the 7 and 8"......if your 964 or 993 came with 16" you want 17".....if it came with 17" you want the 18"....etc...etc.....these usually cost between $2-5,000 at order time and if you are seriously considering a new car, order them, because you get 50% of the cost back, and the car sells faster since a Porsche with "welfare wheels" (the base no cost wheels) is almost always a dog a resale time. Conversely, if you are buying a used car, you shoiuld pick the one with the larger optional wheels, because to buy them, along with tires and center caps "after the fact" is, as you will see, quite expensive.

4-Xenon lights.....a relatively new option (late 90's) and cheap in comparison to some of the others, plus you get it back at resale time. There is no such things as Xenon bulbs or retrofit kits either.......you can go to the dealer and buy the wiring harnesses and parts to do it, but you'll pay a bloody fortune and you'll soon find out that it won't be worth your while. If they were an option, you really should have them......but if the car you want has virtually everything else but, it should not be a deal breaker.

5-Upgraded sound system.....the base stereo system in a Porsche is pretty good......but the upgraded ones are excellent value for the money, usually around than $2,000......and you often get it back at resale time.

6-Black interior color.....if you don't know what INTERIOR color you want, don't have a choice because that is what the available choices are, or really don't care, GO BLACK. You'll never lose buyers at resale time, if works with all the exterior colors and it stays cleaner almost all the time, and best of all, it is free.

Now to the expensive things that are personally worth the money IMHO, especially on a new car order, but completely subjective both in personal tastes and budget, as follows.......

1-Aerokit or rear decklid tails/front spoilers.....really expensive when new, and even moreso to add after the fact if using OEM parts and a top notch bodyshop.

On older cars (pre 964) a car with the rear tail MUST HAVE the front rubber spoiler lip to work correctly from an aerodynamic point of view. The OEM factory parts, painted and installed, will cost you $7,500 +/- on a 1980's era 911 Carrera if you were to do it yourself.......aftermarket is around 1/2 of that.

Aerokits on newer cars (993 Turbo S and 996 +) were roughly $9-12K at the time of order........and they can easily run $8K to buy the aftermarket parts, paint and install, when putting them on a used car. About 50% of the buyers like them, and the other 50% do not.......so you are not going to reduce your marketability if you have it, because the cost when new was so prohibitive, that few cars do, and the ones that are so equipped, sell easily for about 10% more.

2-Full leather interiors.....you can spend between $5-8K on your cars interior, depending on your whimsy and pocketbook, and you'll get about $2K of it back. And when you resell it, the next guy will take it over a car without it in a heartbeat. Personally, I love them. There is nothing like the smell, look and feeling of a leather headliner, dash, sunvisors, door panels, console, etc, etc........

3-Paint and leather in "color to sample".....big bucks......easily $5-7K each.....and up to $15K for pearl finishes. They add between 2-4 months to your new car build time, but like a bespoke suit, are well worth the wait. If you are going all out it is worth it, but only to you, because it is rare to find a used car buyer with the same specific taste, or pocketbook, as you. But, if time is on your side during resale, it can be to your advantage to have a "one of a kind" Porsche with a properly coordinated and unique color scheme........some of the cars I have seen in my time were breath taking and beyond words.

4-The "S" option.....usually a bigger and more powerful engine, larger wheels, better brakes, a better gearbox, more standard equipment included and a more option choices available. From a pure financial perspective it is almost always a deal.....and at resale time you will always sell your car for about 50% of the initial option cost, and much faster before a base model car sells to pretty much any buyer out there. Look around on dealer's lots and see how many base model cars sit......

5-All wheel drive.....depending on your market it may or may not be worthwhile purely from a desireability point of view. Usually on a used car you do not get any of your money back. Even if you plan to drive in all four seasons it is not necessary to have it, but it is nice, especially in heavy snowfall areas with dedicated snow tires. The car drives different than the rear wheel drive example, and you must drive both before making the decision.

6-"Exclusiv" options.....how much of a "baller" are you ? A 997 C4S can easily exceed the price of a loaded 997 Turbo by the time you add an aerokit, full leather and a "to sample" color scheme......so by then you'll want to send it over Werk 1 for the "Exclusiv" treatment. How much money do you have anyways ? This is where you will get the answer, as Porsche will do almost anything, as long as it does not affect the integrity of the vehicle or it's safety.

Do you want a 3 color leather interior with different carpets, wood, carbon fiber, aluminium, painted interior trim, colored seatbelts, leather switches or vents, a really powerful and specially acoustically designed stereo system over and above the optional package (I sold one on a 996 GT2 for $15K) a special one off engine to your countries emisison specs, custom bodywork that is safety certified, or like one of my clients back in 1995, a new 928 that was as quiet as his new BMW 850i.

I told this story before, but for those of you who haven't heard it, and how it relates to Porsche "Exclusiv" here goes.........so, we sent in the initial request and 2-3 days later I get a fax direct to me from Germany from an engineer that says, yes we can do something for Mr. Doe, but you should know that the 928 GTS is already as quiet as the 850i.....!!!!!!! Anyways, we will do all of this....blah, blah, blah......and it will cost him $50,000 over and above the MSRP of $118,000, plus will take an additional 3 months to complete.

So, be prepared for them to say yes.......and for you to keep the special car for a very long time as you will not get all of your money back at resale time, but if you have to sell it, expect it to go fast.

More to follow, and I will get back to you Isobel sometime tomorrow.

 

Yes and no. Needs some explanation........neither issue would not stop me from buying one.

996 and Boxsters had a series of RMS (rear main seal) failures early on and Porsche instructed dealers to swap out the entire engine in order to send the complete unit back for teardown, inspection and remanufacturing. Overkill IMHO......and the internet being what it is, the legend of bad 996/986 engines was born. Remember, there are also hundreds of thousands of happy Porsche owners who don't make up websites, or post compliments online, because they are too busy driving their cars........all mechanical devices are designed by humans, built by humans, used by humans and fixed by humans........

Later on a procedure for RMS replacement was instituted that costs about $900 CAD (my wholesale cost, done about 7-8 of them over the years) and supposedly solves the problem if done right with the correct tool by someone who cares to do it slowly and carefully, rather than just pound it in there and then punch their time card.....it costs roughly $1,000 USD +/- at retail depending on who does it.......and it is now considered a maintenance item to be inspected during servicing.

Intermediate shaft failures (IMS) were another story all together......I have seen ONE fail on a Boxster with the end result being a total engine replacement required ($12K CAD) and this occured after some 100,000 KMS (60K miles) of hard driving......that is it......ONE failure.......not saying it hasn't happened to others, and it won't happen again, but you can check for certain things on a car and hopefully proceed accordingly. Main problem is that you get very little warning. It is not like these things are happening enmass, there are a couple of hundred thousand 996/986 cars running around out there worldwide.......and the internet is what it is.

Now you can go and get an upgrade kit from a company called LN Engineering that replaces the OEM parts for the IMS with beefier stuff if you have the engine out already. A couple of thousand bucks and you are good to go.

The multi-piece 964 case used in the 996 Turbo has it's own share of potential problems........leaking case bolt seals, leaking case halves, leaking cylinder barrels, heads, etc........all things that you don't get on the other engine because it was designed differently. Tearing down and splitting a 964/993 case to repair it costs 40-50 hours of labor plus parts......$10K +/- whatever else you always find while you are in there.......

In either case, it sure beats doing belts, tensioners, etc, every 3-5 years at $5-15K +/- depending on which Ferrari you have.......I have rebuilt tons of 911 and 964 engines, 2-3 x 993's and no 996 Turbo or GT3 ones.....

IMHO it was your typical asset bubble caused by too many people, with access to easy credit and too much money, in a market with too few cars, and the right demographic age group, who were also Steve McQueen fans. The market has corrected somewhat.

Unless it has a later 3.0 or larger engine swap done, I'd stay away from any 2.7 engined cars (except a real RS) regardless of who rebuilt them (unless it was really dirt cheap @ <$15K CAD) or what they say they have done to the 2.7 litre engine......I haven't seen one that was rebuilt actually stay dry (not leak) or hold together (bad metallurgy) in the long run yet. There is no historical or collectible significance to the 2.7 litre non-RS cars IMHO.....so why anyone would spend money rebuilding that engine is beyond me, when you can swap in a 3.0 or bigger engine for just a little more money.

Gotta state my bias upfront......I sold both of these when new, and love the 964 series. There is nothing wrong with a 993, I just like the look of the last upright headlights of the 964 body......and either car will cost you dearly if it is perfect.

It comes down to your budget first, and then personal preference insofar as styling goes IMHO as to which one you get. Do you have a budget in mind, as these cars are all over the place for various valid reasons ?

If you are buying a C4 there is a big difference between the two cars drivetrains. I'll explain in more depth if that is the case. The 964 C4 is much better than the 993 C4 if you are.

Both the 964 and 993 have their unique mechanical faults due to the design, and IMHO neither is better than the other in that regard. The 964 has it's engine oil leak problems (cureable with one good rebuild and the right gaskets and machine work) it's dual mass flywheel issue (cureable with one clutch change) it's cylinder head/barrel gasket problem (again, easily cureable) and due to it's age, most of these things have already been done by now on most if not all of the cars out there.

Biggest 964 problem is that there were SO FEW OF THEM SOLD when new......great ones are hard to find.....dogs are plentiful.

The 993 has all of the potential previous 964 engine issues, plus, secondary air injection problems on OBD II cars, viscous coupling problems on C4's, valve guide problems on all of them (964 never had that), etc. In many cases, due to the lower mileage of surviving examples, these problems still exist. All are cureable.

BTW this is all from my memory, I didn't source the web for the info you see here.....so E & OE applies.

Happy New Year !!!!!!

 

OMG, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE INFO, KDS!

If you're thinking of purchasing a second hand 3x8, I believe the only car of interest as a real option for most enthusiasts would be a 911. Sure, there are Vettes and Loti and tons of others, but as a package, the 911 encompasses most of the traits and qualities a 3x8 offers, the tradeoff being reliability/maintenance costs vs. desirability.
The info you've provided is priceless and I appreciate the depth of your responses. I have warring factions urging me to buy a 911 (no recurring service issues, easier to maintain day to day, etc.) or a 3x8 ( it's a Ferrari!) and there have been a few 964s I've found tempting after losing a few Fezzas to others over the years. Again, thanks so much for your time and I hope others benefit from your detailed responses to my questions.
Hoping you have a terrific 2010 also.

 

Also, any 964/993/996 will absolutely outperform any model of the 3X8 series in any category.

I've had a couple of carbed 308 GTB's, a 348, as well as a 355 for a few months each.....and while they were OK cars, not stunning, or memorable in any way shape or form, the only reason I believe the early 3X8 series are still bringing in the high $20's and low $30's is the badge on the hood. The build quality, service costs, performance, ergonomics, etc, etc, are utter crap compared to anything German form the same period. 328's and 348's are better, but not enough IMHO to justify the pricing either. 355's....well I wouldn't touch one of those with a ten foot pole knowing what I know today. Ferrari only started to produce a road car equivalent to the modern Porsche when the 360 was introduced.........

If you are spending under $50K a 911 is the way to go.......you can drive it year round and people don't care.......a "well chosen" and "properly vetted" 911 is almost depreciation proof due to the low service costs. Don't get me wrong, I toyed with the idea of buying an F-car for a keeper and was ready to take the TR plunge......I like them, but my tolerance level for things mechanical and tastes are changing.

If you have any more questions please let me know as I'd be glad to give you my opinions, and others are welcome to add their two cents as well.........this isn't "my exclusive thread" per say, I just wanted to get one started for future reference........

 

I probably will have more questions and again, thanks for the heads up. I will relate one experience I had when I went to purchase a 328 in Florida a few years ago. The owner of the shop was a pleasure to speak with (the 328 in question sold that morning , naturally) and his comments mirrored your own. He told me Ferraris were fun to drive and almost always created a stir but as a technician, he wouldn't own one as it would eat up his time. He went on to say if Porsche did things similar to Ferrari, they wouldn't be in existence today and added he was amazed at what people would tolerate from Ferrari in both engineering and component standards. He also mentioned 355s wear service bears, for lack of his direct quote.
Ok, I'd still prefer owning a Ferrari but his words stuck (as have others).

 

WERE service bears.....

 

If a 964 coupe would be awarded 100% for structural integrity, what percentage would you allot for a targa and also a convertible ? Any differences between 964 and 993 convertibles and is a 993 targa as rigid as a 993 coupe ? I've read 993 targas suffer rattles due to the complexity of the roof mechanism. Fwiw, my preference would be for an 'old style' targa or a convertible, unless the difference is appreciable.

 

Well.......based on driving them extensively (and that is what really counts for everyone, as personally subjective as that measurement may be) and not any sort of structural rigidty NVH tests as conducted by a manufacturer, I'd say 964 targa's are at 90% and cabriolets are at 80%......FWIW.

964 and 993 cabriolets are basically the same thing. Porsche has a habit of saying that the new car is 85% +/- from time to time made of different parts. While that may be true, the changes that make one part new versus the old one are often insignificant in design and function (a part # change for example) and more a form of marketing hype than anything else.

964 and 993 Targa's......well.....they are a world of difference and IMHO the 993 Targa is to be steered well clear of for the following reasons......I expect James Woods to disagree here any moment as he has one.

-Replacement cost of the glass roof panel/seals/etc due to accident damage, delaminating or vandalism (most common) plus labor is $10K +/-........
-Propensity to eventualy malfunction.
-The car is top heavy by 200 pounds due to the weight of everything associated with the targa roof.
-NVH issues (lots of squeeks and rattles)
-Esthetics......993 Targa's are basically 993 cab bodies with the special roof mated to the body and a clearly visible dividing line evident that looks awful.
-Difficulty of resale as it didn't sell well when new.

Having said that....964 Targas should be checked for.......

-Condition of rubber body seals ($1,500 to replace all of them)
-Condition of top lining and cover ($1,500 to recover and repair)
-Alignment of door windows for leaks and wind noise

 

Kds, Thanks for taking the time to compose such a great summary. You should write a book.

I'd like to add:
The 1973 Porsche 911 RS came in two versions. The "lightweight" is rarer (200 made) than the "Touring " model (1360 made).
The 1973/1974 Porsche RSR (2.8L or 3.0L) is very valuable. They won professional races for many years after production.
The 1965-1968 911 has an 2.0L aluminum engine and tranaxle. It is know as the small bumper short-wheelbase car. The 911S, the 911R (very rare and desirable), and the 1968 911 T/R (ditto) are all desirable.
The 1969-1973 911 are known as the small bumper long-wheelbase cars (longhood cars). They had a 2.2L (1969-1971) or a 2.4L (1972-1973). The 1970 911 S/T is very rare. All years offered a 911S.

I's also like to add the 1988 911 Carrera Club Sport (340 made), and the 1992-1993 Porsche 911 RSA (America roadster; 250 made).

Many people also like the 914-6 on a race track. It's mid-engine design is perfect for road racing. The 914-6 used the 911 engine and will accept just about any 911 air-cooled flat six.

Doc

 

Too many before me have written great books about Porsche....there's nothing I could possibly add. However, I may write a book one day about the stories you tend to accumulate over 2 decades while in the business of selling high end cars.

 

<r.e. the 993 Targa> I expect James Woods to disagree here any moment as he has one.

Well, sorry to dissapoint - but mine has started to rattle at about 110K miles. It is the guide mechanism on the sliding glass top which is at fault. The shade part was broken when I got the car at 44K miles.

As far as the overall metal structure, they were built on a Cab platform but had the nearly couple-like upper glass area, so in general they are pretty solid. (Note - mine has a front strut brace between the suspension towers.)

However, that top actuation mechanism is troublesome and expensive to fix.

Those multi-bolt wheels are also no longer available, as far as I know.

 

You should do it. Those stories would also be interesting to those of us that read "Sports Car Market" magazine.

Thanks again.

 

Great read, thanks for compiling all that! If I post a 996 picture would you help me figure out what the hell it is? We used to have a 996 and I think it's a C2S with the aerokit cup package but I'm not quite sure.

 

Go ahead.....post the pic.

 

Taken in 2000/2001, if that helps at all haha.
Thanks!
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That's a factory correct "Aerokit" as used on the 996 GT3 and Carrera Cup cars........with what appear to be the optional (and not often used) pieces that go on the rocker panels "behind" the rear wheels......looks nice in black.

 

Did the 1999 GT3 R, 2000 GT3 Cup, 2001 GT3 RS, and the 1999-2001 GT3 (the street car) all use the same rear wing?