Spec series?

Anyone have any thoughts on getting involved in any of the spec series, miata, BMW, etc.? Especially in the midatlantic region.

I am going to look at a BMW E30 racecar for a track car, and I got to thinking about the possibilites with a little more seat time....

 

Excellent idea.

I have long been a Spec series racer. Started in the days of SCCA Spec Renault and have gone on from there - currently piloting in the Spec Miata class in a dark blue 1994 with a 1.8. Mostly you will find good low ego guys with closely match machines. Another benefit is that you will find that you become quite a good momentum driver and you will use your brain more than ever thinking of small advantages both with your driving style and mechanically.

Its my preferred venue and most of the formulas available work very well. Pick the right group (Spec Miata), run up front, and the contingancy dollars can pay for your racing (at least it does for me).

Enjoy.
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Christian, for the Mid-Atlantic Region, I recommend Spec E30. Cars are great for DE and Club Racing, there's a really good one for sale by an architect friend of mine here in Durham and NASA has PLENTY of dates at VIR with a turnout of 24-30 Spec E30's at every race! Buy that car and run it February 20-22 at VIR!

SM is good, but for where you are, the money and the population density of the class, Spec E30 is the best thing going. Take a look at this month's Grassroots Motorsports!

 

I have raced in the Panoz series and Skip Barber MX-5 spec series, both were/are great. I am currently looking at IMSA Lites spec racing. They are support racers for the ALMS and look to be a lot of fun!!!!

 

Agree with all that has been said. I race but not in a spec series. I would rather race in a spec series but I have what I have so....
Mid Atlantic has a very strong group in NASA. www.nasaracing.net They feature either spec miata and BMW e30. I suppose its personal preference betweeen them but both have strong followings. The other I would bring to mind that gives you both NASA ond Porsche Club racing opportunities is the 944 cup series. All three roughly the same relative low cost. Jon in Delaware

 

Thanks everyone for the responses!

Peter - I am looking at an E30 on Monday up next to VIR, and yes, I want to come to VIR in Feb, hopefully with a new car (if I must, I will bring the 335). Send me a message about you friends car, because I am looking.

Christian

 

Christian, e-mail sent.

 

Christian,

I will second Peter's comments about Spec E30 in the Southeast. Those guys are some of the best to race with and the cars are a blast to drive. They are simple to work on, simple to maintain, and feature a huge fun to money factor. If I wasn't racing World Challenge I would say it is the best racing out there. ;-)

 

Dude, you're our roundel-racing hero!

 

I'm in...
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Good deal!

The BimmerWorld and GRM stickers are worth AT LEAST half a second a lap!

 

Congratulations!

And, for purposes of this corner of fchat, I believe you've been promoted to "Other Racing."

 

SM Contingency dollars pay for racing? Please post exact finances. I have raced SM for 7 years and know of no contingency program that will pay for a front-running effort, even if you won every National Race you entered and the Runoffs. I do much of the work myself, but a pro engine is aobut 8K and to chase for the runoffs you need at least 2 (needs to be fresh for runoffs), then there are tires, travel, lodging, and so much more. A typical race weekend where I tow my own stuff and prep my own car costs at least $1000 and that is if I don't tear up anything.

I may eat my words, but no way in hell can you pay for your race budget with contingency dollars in club racing, no matter how good you are.

 

I have to agree with kverges. I can't see how any club racing contingencies, even in the very popular SM class, can make even a noticeable dent in your expenses, even if you always win. Please do give us details if this is not just exaggeration.

 

Hold on you two… I said “pay for your racing” not pay to go racing like you state. Here are some easy breezy stats:

If you do things right you can in one race pull $150 per finish from tire contingency, $50 per race for brake pad contingency, $50 per race for clutch contingency (there are more but that are most common) and I have a deal with both my corporate sponsor & my engine sponsor (anybody can get these deals, they are there for the asking) that pays $150 (contingent on my finish) each per podium, plus each finish pays dividends in a year end check direct from Mazda that I don’t believe your even thinking about (Mazda is very generous as I am sure you will agree). Not to mention the pay outs are great (lets call them excessive) for year end championship races (runoffs etc.) that I am not including.

Let’s see now… One regular “win” and I am receiving $550 that race not including the monies received after the year ends.

Now... To put the car on the track that race I am spending say $280 entry; prorate $100 tires, $20 brake pads, $100 engine use, $30 fuel, $20 crew’s alcohol… Hey! whatdoyouknow… $550

Lookie there. My contingency paid for me to race. How about that!

Holy moly. Have some fun guys. This is not an accounting class it’s just a thread about spec racing. Enjoy yourself.

 

Christian, I raced Spec Racer Ford and Spec Miata for years up until last year. Drop me a PM if you want to talk.

MB

 

i don't understand the distinction.

you can win without new tires? what part of the country are you in (serious question)?

not at all. damage, travel, time off work, practice day, blah blah blah. don't forget depreciation on all your supporting equipment either.

hey, you're the one that first brought it up and second decided to (feebly) defend yourself. you are right, it's about fun but you shouldn't be giving people the false idea that at the club level you can come anywhere near break-even.

 

Hold on one minute. You expect me to believe you're getting through an entire race weekend only spending $20 on liquor???

 

You caught me... I underestimated the alcohol dollars. What was I thinking. I will spend three times that much just trying to feel better after mousycatch called me feebly.

 

Engine sponsors for the asking? I am all ears. Plus a $6k engine does not really amortize to $100 per race. Not sure about that tire number either. Not really worth debating though

 

I run in the 944 Cup series and I like it a lot. For me it's a good middle ground between the pure spec 944 class and the "sky's the limit" of Super Cup. The rules allow plenty of (expensive) suspension mods but very few (crippling) engine mods. I considered SM but went with the 944 for a couple of reasons. First, the Miata felt a little small for me. Second, I was frankly scared off by the "Spec Pinata" stories.

But you can't go wrong with any of those cars, and I know people who have raced all three.

 

Here in California - I've been running with the Porsche Club POC under Boxster Spec Racing.

The group is growing.

We are currently regulated to Porsche Boxsters between 1997 to 1999 (2.5 liter motors only).
Weight spec of 2650 lbs. including driver.
Spec tires - Toyo R888 225 fronts, 255 rears.
For more specs view boxsterspecracing.org

The spec is for limiting expenses.
Great momentum driving.

I got in the car fully built at approx $35k.

 

Most important aspect of "spec series" is the number of people participating and the policing of the restricted specification. By definition, spec series rely on a restricted specification as compared to other classes and will be at some disadvantage, especially in overall classification. Early adopters are brave, principal-driven or both and hope that the spec series gains enough entries to enjoy "critical mass." Often, through the tireless efforts of a few people, it works!

Spec Miata, Spec 944 or Spec E30 cars, by themselves, are nothing special, but there is no greater exhiliration than piling into the corners with your friends being assured of relative parity. Both the shared experience and the idea of racing with your friends seems to be the best and most durable "glue" in the amateur racing experience. Reinforced by dyno and weight scrutiny (no need for internal discovery unless there are discrepancies found), spec series support can be very strong.

Having been involved with several "spec" series and been fortunate to enjoy that camaraderie frequently, there is much to recommend. Most "spec" programs have strong Regional followings and I've heard great things about the Spec Boxster series. These series also serve to help driver development more than more open classes.

Guess I just wanted to say that whatever your flavor, these series are a great deal of fun and that the restricted nature of the spec doesn't take away from the fun.

 

Spec Pinata! That is great!

Consider the sanctioning bod as well as the vehicle.

I tried PCA racing and as a SM racer it was not for me. In a spec class, if you want to REALY RACE, some contact is simply inevitable. I am not talking about spearing someone by not slowing for the apex, but I am talking about being two wide in a fast turn and the car moves a bit or there is a slick spot on the track or whatever and you come together enought to leave a mark (but not upset either car enough to alter the outcome of the pass attempt). This kind of contact is OK in SCCA and NASA, but not OK in PCA; PCA stewards have made it clear to me they do not race like SCCA.

I can sure understand the PCA rule, as some racers, especially quick and agressive new racers, think hard contact due to misjudgment that punts a competitor is OK, too, and it is not, in any series. I think PCA likes to err on the side of extreme caution with a hard and fast no contact 13/13 rule. My problem with that is it leaves no room for hard racing and what I view as inevitable. By the end of a 20-race season my SM is covered with tire donuts on the side and the odd dent and I simply view them as "hustle marks." In fact, I have noticed marks on my car after a close race and honestly have no idea who left them or at what point on the track. I honestly think that is just too cool!

I may take heat for this, but decide if you really want to RACE. SCCA, NASA both let you race and have a case-by-case protest and stewardship program for contact.

In full disclosure I should confess what is probably obvious - got a 13 in PCA (and ticket home in the middle of an expensive trip to Sebring as the rule works) and decided that in a difference of opinion with PCA stewards I'd lose very time so decided it was not a love connection and I am confident I am not missed even a little bit! I returned to my roots in SCCA and NASA SM and that focus has been very rewarding since.

 

Hey, that's great. The beauty of the whole thing is you pay your money and you take your choice.

Having started in SCCA and spending a great deal of time (primarily due to business) in historic racing, I think a lot of people have trouble reconciling the idea of "hard racing, but no touching." Twenty years ago, I passionately argued at a historic race that because (IMO) racing was the ultimate in personal responsibility, you as a driver were responsible for EVERYTHING that happened on track, no matter what. Harsh, but I still think Doc Bundy was right! Three hours later, I had a big crash at the bottom of the Esses at Road Atlanta on the last lap of the last race of the last weekend of the year. I was put on 13/13 and was cool with that. I just drove with a little more margin over the next year and had no trouble. It's a warning that your reach may not equal your grasp, not an indictment!

With age comes wisdom (for most, anyway ), and I still drive with the same razor-thin margin in both unrestricted (that's what SCCA Club Racing feels like these days) and 13/13-governed venues. Whether winning a couple rough and tumble SCCA National races (while setting a track record) or contesting a tight piece of real estate on the opening lap with nine other "spec series" drivers going into NASCAR bend at VIR in last weekend's 13/13-governed Heacock Classic Gold Cup Historic Races covered with a blanket, I'm always going to drive at my carefully honed and calculated limit.

Yes, even in our 13/13 series, I've left and had left on me surreptitious tire marks (that rubbed out ) but suffered little cracked fiberglass and carbon fiber. That said, I've always been told that unless you're racing professionally, anything more than "trading paint" and often just up to that means the driver doesn't know or have the skill to contain his envelope and keep it from overlapping into another drivers area. The rise in sensationalistic press coverage of stock car and professional sports car racing does no good, in that regard. I've actually found SCCA National racing cleaner (and MUCH faster) than Regional or NASA racing, so maybe it's the culture of the folks doing it.

Not sure what I'm rambling on about other than I wouldn't be proud of the fact (or require to be included to validate the competitiveness) of contact being part of "better" racing. I was embarrassed for SCCA when a bright young star was "turned" by a multi-time National Champion in the last lap of the RunOffs a few years ago. It seemed like SCCA did not follow it's own rules regarding the top requirement of a driver's responsibility is to "leave racing room." Still doesn't, often...

If the organizers and sanctioning bodies are consistent, quick and reasonably fair, they CAN influence positively driver deportment. I know, been on BOTH sides of the fence!

Good luck and have fun!