Starter

I posted this in a thread in the 3x8/Mondial section and thought I'd repost here:

"Bit of a late update. After cleaning every other contact in sight and checking power, it was time for a new starter. We could not find a solenoid for the starter. A new Bosch starter cost around $1850 from the stealer! A rebuilt starter ran about $600 with a six month warranty. So, I called Gustafson (http://gustafsonspecialty.com/) and asked about the starters. They have a starters for British cars BUT said they also service 8 AND 12 cylinder Ferraris as well. They couldn't sell it to me directly. So, I called The Roadster Factory (of Triumph fame) and ordered a new starter for (are you ready?) $450 with a LIFETIME warranty! Fit fine and works great."
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Thanks for sharing Joe!

Looks like a smaller compact unit. Was there a difference in weight??

You cant beat a lifetime warranty either.

 

Cool. Is that bolt pattern the same or did you have to modify?

 

Well I didn't think to officially weigh them, but, yes, I'd say it is lighter. I don't think enough to gain any additional HP though!

 

Bolts up.

 

put one on the Mondial - works great! sounds like a Japanese car, but ALWAYS starts!!
Also available at www.Ferraristarters.com

 

From FasterIsBetter: "...and only weights about 9 lbs compared to 22 lbs for the old Bosch starter."

 

I'm just curious here but I would assume that Ferrari back in the 70's and 80's would have selected a starter from bosch that had multiple uses. Does anyone know what other cars used the same starter or did Ferrari have one made just for the 308/328 cars.

 

Joe -- do you have the 10-digit Bosch PN stamped onto the old solenoid case?

 

The starter is at the shop. I'll let you know Friday...

However, from the picture there is a number on the flange that looks like 1 005 821 080.

 

Just to round out the thread I just found out the guys in the UK have solenoids. Here is the link: http://www.superformance.co.uk/a-308/electrical.htm.

Figures, now I find one!

 

Joe -- Can you still please post the 10-digit Bosch PN for reference.

 

Pap,

There is very little difference in weight. Original starter (on my 328---imagine a 308 is the same or similar) is 4.61kg (10.14 lbs) and the smaller non-OEM is 3.79kg (8.34 lbs.) for a difference of 0.82kg (1.80 lbs.) I was hoping/expecting a nice weight savings also but it's not to be :-(

Not sure where the figure of 22 lbs. for an OEM starter came from unless 308 starters are way different from 328.

Overall length of original 328 starter is 26.5 cm long and non-OEM is 19.0 cm.

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328 Starter Motor and Solenoid part #'s (from early 1988 328)
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Cool man. Thanks for posting. I was just curious.

 

Update on price. It actually cost $400 plus shipping. I got a weight of 12lbs.

Here are the numbers off the starter...
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Thanks Joe & E -- appreciate getting the Bosch PN information.

 

Joe, I was just curious why you don't just take your old starter to your local-yocal starter rebuild place. The usual fix is to take it apart and put new bushings, bearings and brushes....usually about $100-$125. We have and excellent place here in Stuart, FL called RAPCO....and no I am not affiliated with them but they do good work.

 

I must really be bored.....but I found a Bosch solenoid at Advance Auto Parts of all places! Here is the link FYI http://www.partsamerica.com/productdetail.aspx?MfrCode=BOS&MfrPartNumber=0331303032

 

The starter was fine. I needed a new solenoid and according to the local guys it can't be rebuilt. But I may need my TR6 starter rebuilt so I will keep that name handy.

LOL! Before I bought the new starter no one knew where I could get a solenoid! After I bought the starter NOW everyone finds them! I searched and never did find one for some reason. Oh well. The starter does work very well and fires her up very quickly. But, it really does sound like a Nissan when she cranks over. The good news is the next guy who has a problem now has choices. Gotta love this board.

 

I just had a problem with starting my 328. I'd get a good strong click but sometimes it would not turn over. In the following weeks it got worse until it just clicked each time. Battery and connections were good. Pulled the motor out and put a battery directly to the solenoid and ground to starter motor. The motor would turn VERY slowly. Thought I might have a bad motor/brushes (although not likely on a car with 33,000 kilometer from new). I put the battery juice directly to the starter motor (bypassing the solenoid) and it spun like a mad man. That told me the solenoid was the problem. Either the internal solenoid contacts had high resistance or the solenoid plunger was not moving with enough force to make solid contact with the electrical terminals. It did seem to click pretty strongly. Anyway, took apart the solenoid (removed the plunger) and cleaned up the inside a bit. It didn't seem particularly dirty or sticky but when I put it back together it worked fine and does so now that it is back in the car.

The plunger moves in a brass?? sleeve. I will not call it a tight fit but it is certainly a precision fit. When you put the plunger back into the solenoid housing you can feel the resistance caused by the air having to be forced out for the plunger to go in. Therefore, if there is some crap in there or old, stiff grease it could cause the plunger to not act with enough force and not really slam the contacts together really well to send the 12 volts (at many amps.) to the motor itself. From this I can also understand that if the solenoid body got too hot that the plunger might expand the tiniest amount and then not function properly (stick against the brass sleeve) and give you the well-known "no hot start" symptom that can occur in older cars. Probably a combination of old grease/oil, grit and some expanding. This would be further hampered or the problem "amplified" by slight voltage losses that occur at various connections and terminals as things get oxidized and loose over the years.

Attached is a photo showing the plunger out of the solenoid body.

Your mechanic is correct. The solenoid cannot be rebuilt. I mean the coil is sealed in the unit and the electrical contacts also. You can, as I did, remove the plunger and clean it. That's about it.

Not sure what the Nissan starter motor sound is like as I haven't put in the smaller non-OEM starter motor that I have. I can't say that the original Bosch sound is interesting or in any way special. To me it sounds like any other Bosch starter motor whether it's on a Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW etc.

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Joe, I got mine in the mail the other day and will swap it out this weekend. Price is up though - $450. This is supposed to be a new starter but even if it were a factory rebuilt it still beats an OEM at almost $2000.00.

Anyone have any questions before I tackle the job?

BTW, it looks very similar to the OEM 348 starter.
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When installing the hi torque starter on a 308 , we found the cable from the battery was almost too short to bolt onto the starter terminal. Had to do some tugging to remove all the slack to get it to reach. Verify this on your car - you may need to replace the cable with a longer one.

 

Wade,

The install is simple, but the main problem you are going to have is connecting the heavy cable from the battery to the terminal on the new starter. You might want to consider making (or buying) a cable to go from the starter terminal to a connector block that you can mount on the frame rail. And you can connect the alternator lead there as well. I didn't think about this when I installed mine and had to struggle to stretch the cable to connect. If I ever do it again will definitely put on an extension to a connector block.

Have fun!!

Steve

 

Thanks for the tips Guys. When it comes to aftermarket I always expect the unexpected, now I'm up one one.