355 Starting issue

Tonight, my car refused to start with the typical "tactactac" sound while turning the key like the battery is dead, but it isn't.
There is still enough juice to turn on the lights etc...
That was just after a long drive in traffic jam (hot). I got back to my parking lot, shut off the engine while I was putting back the roof on the car, and then, when I wanted to start it again...

It happened to me once before, and I used a booster and the car started right on.
Unfortunately, I hadn't a booster available tonight so I had to push the car, but I'm pretty sure it will start tomorrow.

Anyone is having an explanation?
Tired battery? Something else?

 

If you Google V8 starter motor current, you get quite a range of values, from around 200 amps, but can be much higher for a few milliseconds of start. Jumper packs can produce 750amps. Low beam headlights have 15 amp fuses (and probably don't go near that value). It's probably a battery issue, but check your alternator output with something like this:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/353934048871?

How old is your battery?

 

I have no idea.
But first time I had an issue was in November, and the next one was today...

 

Take battery out get it tested. Might just be old and the cranking amps dropped over time.

I also had this problem which was caused by a corroded old battery terminal. I replaced the terminal when the battery was out and that solved it.

 

The cigarette lighter will tell you if your battery volts are low, your trickle charger is producing enough volts and if your alternator is producing enough volts.

The time between events seems odd. I'm not sure why that would happen.

Maybe you could check the connections on your starter?

You can buy repair kits for starter solenoids if the solenoid contacts are worn. F355 starters are not too difficult to remove.

Do you have a start relay on your car? Some later models do have them. It should be mounted next to the relay panel in the passenger footwell.

 

I agree. The F355 doesn't have a voltmeter. I leave this INNOVA 3721 Battery and Charging System Monitor plugged into the cigarette lighter socket to monitor my car's charging system...


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It is possible that the output voltage of your alternator dropped during the long drive in traffic jam causing the battery to be slowly discharged. As suggested, get a voltmeter and monitor the alternator voltage before you make any conclusions. You should also check the tension of the alternator belt.

 

The tick-tick-tick sound would usually signal a flat or bad battery. An old school trick to check if it's battery or starter motor is to put your headlights and wipers on and then try cranking the engine. It the lights don't dim and the wipers keep the same speed then the battery is probably OK and the starter has a problem. If everything dims and the wipers stop then the battery voltage is suspect. This is not 100% foolproof, because if the starter is actually jammed it can draw a ton of current and slow the wipers, but as a quick check its not bad.

Nowadays, someone would make a tiktok about this and call it a "hack" but we were doing this 40+ years ago...

 

F355 wipers are designed to stop during cranking, so frozen wipers might not be a good indication. Power is removed from the fuses relating to wipers and window/mirror heat.

 

This is a valid point but I know with 360s the headlights and fans are grounded through the starter. So when the starter is running, the ground for the lights and fans is eliminated and they stop working. This is Ferraris way of not running high demand items when the starter needs it.
I don't know which model they started this practice with.
I found this many years ago when doing an engine replacement job. I started the engine with a bump switch on the starter. I had used the switch to spin the engine and ensure I had oil pressure. Once I started the car it got hot and the fans would not come on. If you are aware of the disaster of the 360 wiring book, no wiring diagram, after a lot of time making drawings and linking things together, I was surprised to find the ground was in the starter activation wire which I had unplugged and my bump switch was in place of. Reconnected everything and it all started working. That was a couple hours I will never get back. Maybe this will help someone in the future.

 

Interesting -- so Ferrari clearly knew the battery size was borderline right from the drawing board!

 

I think it was around the 512TR/F355 era that this started. The F355 does use the starter solenoid as an earth for the relay which controls power to wipers and window heat. However, I found another path to earth on my 5.2 car, so using a bump switch shouldn't have the same effect.

The aircon on the F355 (or elements thereof) seems to be shut down by a direct signal from the key (start contact) to the HVAC ECU (pin 24).

Starters do use a lot of power ... and with more and more things run by computers, it's probably best to shut down high current devices to stop the volts going to the ECUs falling below critical values.

 

Not because the battery may be borderline but just a good practice to unload the battery while running the biggest consumer. Most cars had this feature, if not earlier, certainly from mid 70's I should think.

 

Thanks for the suggestions guys.
Well, as I presumed, the car started perfectly today (like it does all times, except twice since last july).
I will start by checking the voltage soon: I have an ELM327/ODB2 cable that I connected to the lighter socket with an adapter but it seems my adapter is defective.
I'm tempted to connect the ODB2 alim cable directly to the lighter wires, and leave it, but I believe the lighter socket is always ON even with the key OFF so that will drain my battery, or am I wrong about this?

 

It depends on the model. My '98 lighter is on the ignition circuit, but earlier cars and perhaps other market cars have live battery power.

 

I just checked: on my Euro 97 the lighter socket is always ON.

 

Sometimes I have to wiggle my power adaptor to make my scanner (and other plug-in devices) to work. I don't know if the Ferrari cigarette lighter is an unusual size.

 

I bought another male socket and it is working now , but I can only connect the ODB in one app that gives me no infos.
The others can't connect.

 

Did you deactivate your immobiliser?

 

My guess is that one of 2 things happened to you the other day:

1) your battery is tired, and stop and go traffic doesn't mean much alternator charging of the battery. Remember, 8500rpm redline means the alternator is pulley sized to assume most of the time the car will be at 3-4000rpm, so idling in traffic is a draw on the battery, the alternator just isn't earning its keep at that rpm.

2) the cars get hot underhood when sitting in stop and go traffic, so if your starter is getting the least bit sticky, this will set it off, and the starter will be "stuck" next time you crank it. This is where a thump on the starter with a soft mallet may help you figure out whether it's the starter or not. They're easy to rebuild, just don't tell the shop what car it came off of if you remove it yourself and take it in.

I've had both these issues in my '98. And my car has an always-live lighter socket, it's where I plug in my trickle charger.

 

Sure I did.

I vote for option 2.

Today I received my battery/alternator tester and it shows both are in perfect condition.
Battery is 12.30V, and charging is at 14.48V while running at iddle.

 

Also check the voltage while running, the lights and AC on, and at the time when the radiator fans come on. In addition, keep an eye on the voltage when again in slow traffic on a hot day. The output voltage will drop somewhat when the alternator gets heated up.

 

I left my car parked in my garage with the alarm on for a little more than 2 weeks without using it, and tonight when I tried to start the engine I got the taktaktak from the starter.
I checked the voltage and it's at 11.55v
Is it normal after a couple of weeks of inactivity with alarm on, or should change my battery?
Thanks.

 

Yeah, I hook mine to a trickle charger if it's sat for a week, 2 weeks and it's a crap shoot if it'll start or not.