Steep Turns

Tripp, I know that I must sound repetiive and boring with my ol' guy stories but I remember the endless hours of practicing maneuvers. Sixty years ago the emphasis was on flying and I guess a lot of the training we recieved then is what the commercial pilots do now. One of the maneuvers that I had to do on my flight test for my private was a 720 to the left and a 720 to the right without loss of altitude. I believe the bank angle was more than 45 Deg and that I had to transition from one 720 into the next without skidding or slipping. I remember rolling into it, increase power, and controlling altitude with back pressure....something like what your instructor is telling you. I had to hit the propwash from the previous circuit to demonstrate a correct 720. I doubt that you're going to strain the wings on anything that you're flying now by performing a steep turn. On that ride I got three "engine failures" and had to do precision spins left and right and had to make three "accuracy landings" within 50 feet of the spot.
Good luck.
Switches

 

Tripp, before I go any further I must make a correction in my statement regarding altitude adjustment in steep turns. Bank angle adjustment is the way to controll altitude, getting the lift vector closer to the vertical and visa versa. Back pressure is another gimmick that can be used but over-use can produce a stall and guess what ? ....a spin. I trained in a variety of equipment but I got my last stretch for my license in a Cessna 120. After that I flew everything they would let me fly and whatever I could afford. I worked on the line and in the shops so I had access to things like all the PT-s; PT-13, PT-17, PT-19, PT-22, PT-23, PT-26, and a bunch of old stuff that was pulled out of the rafters after the war and put back together. Some of it is worth millions now; Bird, Waco 10, Waco ATO, CSO, Rearwin ,Travelair.etc. I solo'ed a 1937 Cub that had no brakes and a tailskid off a grass strip. A time that will never happen again.

 

Switches, thanks, you're making me feel like a young guy again.

The only thing I ever flew without brakes and with a tailskid was a DH-82 Tiger Moth. Fun plane.

At least I soloed in a PA-18 Super Cub with a 150 hp engine, steerable tailwheel and electrical system.

I agree about the steep turns as far as using small variations of bank angle to control altitude. I typically learn the "sight picture" for the steep turn (where the horizon cuts the cowling) for a particular airplane, and then not worry about much inside except just to verify that the thing is staying where it should. If you are in a tandem seat aircraft, be aware that the "sight picture" will be quite different in a left turn, where you are below the horizontal axis, from a right turn, where you are above the axis and looking down. If you use a point on the windshield directly ahead of you, however, the relative horizon will be the same in either a right or left steep turn.

I also wait until the turn is established to add the power because the increased angle of attack and resulting increase in drag takes a second to try an slow the airplane down during the turn. If you are using the sight picture as oposed to "back pressure" then its no big deal. The problem with trying to use back pressure as a guage is that it changes with trim settings, airspeed, power changes, etc., whereas the angle of attack at a particular bank angle necessary to maintain the same component of vertical lift doesn't.

Good Luck in your maneuvers - and watch out for those mean instructors and examiners who would be so cruel as to pull the engine during the last 360! (Love it!)

 

Switches - you have a PM

 

I agree with you on the music thing today but there are some things that I do enjoy thanks to my son, Spasso, and some of my own choices. I stay away from the rock junk.
My favorite airplane would have to be the Stearman PT-13. Tough on the ground if you weren't on top of it but an absolute joy in the air. It liked to fly as much as the pilot did. The best was a modified Stearman with a 300 HP Lycoming off an AT-10 complete with the Hamilton Standard prop and full cowling. That was a fun airplane.Just enough additional horsepower without much of a weight change.
You are getting good pilot training now. Complete with everything that you need to go anywhere within the capability of your airplane . Use it wisely.
Switches

 

Did Steep turns for the first time yesterday, after a few minutes of slow flight, in the practice area.
C-152, climbed to 4000 ft. enroute, Throttled back to 1500 RPM, 10 deg flaps.
Bank angle 55 deg, complete 720 degree turns left and right.
Exit the turn, retrim aircraft, and and go to cruise speed.
Repeated exercise at cruise speed.

I performed quite well, to my suprise, after IFR, one week, winds the next, kept me grounded for two weeks.

 

Hi Tripp,
I beleive it is. He is training me, on the Commercial level, for a PPL.
A more precise level, and I'm fine with that. It'll make me a more precise pilot.
Not better, just more precise....

Actually, I've been approached with the idea, of becoming part of the instructor team here. I like the idea.
A Ground Instr. for the time being, and on from there as PIC hours grow.

Hey! If you get inverted, Don't pull back on the stick, or you'll be
flying into the dust and dirt that fell off the top.....and
Remember: 91.105, and 91.303






.............Alright, alright!...........(except for 91.307.c.1, and c.2
and 91.307.d ) .......... (heh heh!)



Charlie
aka Skyraider





.

 

What is your airspeedwhen you are in the steep turn??

And what plane are you in 172??

I just always assumed I needed near full power at that bank angle or at least a healthy airspeed??


Ive only done these @ just below cruise speed (Actually this was my favorite manuever)
My formula was something like 2100 rpm as I started the bank as I passed 30degrees add 200 rpm (just a touch ,keeps altitude)and continue the turn in 1 motion to 45 degrees (maybe it was 55 degrees) -do a 360 and then as I came to about 345 thru the 360 degree roll out, push yolk foward as to not climb , I would feel the "wake" I created (which was what let me know I was right on target) and while releasing foward pressure steepen the bank and continue the 45-55 degree bank the opposite way till 345 degrees and recover @ 360 rolling out on my original heading ----whala!! FUN

 

I was never taught to do them at a specific airspeed, but always made sure I was below maneuvering speed when entering one. Giving about another 200 rpm in a 172 worked great for me! This was also one of my favorite ppl maneuvers.

 

Initial Airspeed approx 80 kts (Vfe) and approx stall speed x 2
Plane is a Cessna 152

The first part I think, was to show me accelerated stalls. The main reason
we were at 4000 ft. But we didn't stall. Just recovered at the first indication.
And felt that "G" pressure, as the yoke was pulled back in that bank.

There was alot to concentrate on inside and out, so I might be
off track a bit. It is a bit overwhelming the first time, and a haze on the
ocean, made the horizon difficult to see. Practice area is over water
on the NJ Shore.

Sorry, if I've confused anyone besides myself.