Supercharged 348

Hi,

i saw an turbo boosted 348 once the asking price went down after time under the price an untouched 348. So i would say it doesn't increase the value of the car. If you find someone who search exactly for such an car maybe you will get more then for an normal one. But thats normal an modified car doesn't get its value (wich the owner spend into it) back on sale .. only if someone realy wants it and spend this money or you have to part it out to get the money or an part of it back wich you spend to it.

And yes i'm supercharging my 348 with an different engine so i think my cars resale value went down to the metalweight price or something but who cares at least the car will push twice or more hp as it does befor.

ps: look at your PrivateMessage Inbox i'm waiting on an reply
_________________________________
Samy

 

I would think that space restrictions would make it VERY difficult to fit a supercharger on a 348.

 

I spec'd out and tried to fit twin vortex and paxtons on my car and there is no real way to make them fit without cutting into the car in some manner.

Turbos are the way to go it appears.

 

Maybe you can fit an radial supercharger. That could be mounted on the engine side or somewhere. And if you build it that its possible to build it back to standard there is no value loss.

But anyway whats the problem with value loss? If i like the car i keep it. I also don't understand these leather front bras or plastik seat covers to keep the value? If its all only about value i would put the money on an bank account then i got 100+ % value after years no loss and not buying a car.
______________________
Samy

 

Do you have turbos on it currently?????
If so, why are you looking to switch?

 

You don't need a blower. You can use chemical supercharging. http://www.holley.com/products.asp?product=08008NOS
This has already been done by a member of FC who says it is great.

 

A custom intake is a lot of work...I built one for my QV, many, many hours. But the performance results were well worth the effort IMO.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

No offense but why do you prefer mechanical superchargers? Nitrous does the same thing as a blower it just does it chemically. Nitrous is just an oxygen rich inert gas that supports the combustion of additional fuel. It also cools the intake charge and makes it more dense which means it does the same thing as the blower without adding all the heat (no intercooler needed). Also, with NOS you only add the additional HP when you need it which means much less wear and tear on the engine in the long run. A blower is also much more difficult to manufacture and install generally needing quite a bit of custom fabrication. The kit I gave a link to is a direct bolt in, no fancy footwork needed to put it in other than upgrading the fuel pump. All it does is raise the fuel rail slightly. Most people could handle the installation themselves. There is also the issue of cost. The NOS kit is only $1500 and a refill costs about $20. There is no way you are going to put a blower on for that price and you probably will not achieve the HP gains you will get with the gas either. The NOS kit can up the HP output anywhere from 100 to 300HP if the engine can handle it. I would not add more than a 100 though because I don't think the engine will live long above 400hp.

 

No offense but give me a break. So what if it's a Ferrari! It is just a car like any other car. I'll take HP over elegance any day.

A complete myth. I have never heard of a single case of someone burning up a motor when the system was set up properly. I have used it myself for years without a single problem.

Once again a myth. The system is already designed to account for the proper mixture. The only way this can happen is if something happens to the fuel supply. Modern systems have safety devices that cut off the nitrous in the event of fuel pressure loss.

Much more likely to occur with a blower than nitrous. Head gaskets blow due to increased cylinder pressure. Both nitrous and blowers increase cylinder pressure but the blower increases it more.

Once again not true. As I said, modern systems have solved that kind of problem. Besides, those problems generally occur with racing systems not street systems since they are running much lower amounts of the gas than racing systems.

Not true. I know of many other users besides myself who have never had to change a thing. All the gas does is support the combustion of additional fuel thats all. It does not burn on its own. oxygen is a non combustable gas.

That is one of the great advantages of nitrous. That fact that it is only there when you need it. Extra HP means extra wear and tear. The fact that the additional HP is not there all the time is a plus.

That is why the newer systems have full throttle safety switches to prevent the gas from flowing when less than full throttle is applied.

The sound of the belt whinning is also costing you HP. Ever heard of friction?

The whole point of which is to change the end HP result which the NOS system can also do with a simple jet change.

That is the point to using nitrous on this car. One of the real weaknesses of the 348 is it's lack of low end power. Even a Nissan 350Z can beat it 0-60. Once the car is rolling it does just fine from 3rd gear on. What it really needs is a kick in the ass out of the hole to get the 0-60 times up to respectable numbers. Everything else about the car is fine.

If think I can accept this minor inconvienence when I consider how much cheaper it is than a blower.

Should not be using it on the street anyway. Best used on the track where it is a serious advantage. Just ask our fellow F-chatter Andy. Bottom line is if you don't like it don't use it. It's your car, do whatever you want with it.

 

gibberish, almost every word.

nitous produces much more heat in the cylinder for the same hp, is simple look at the chemical balance will tell you that...there is much less N2 than you get with air. The general rule is a 25% hp jump is safe, 50% is not. a 150hp shot on a stock 348 is not safe, a 75hp shot is. Also, the motor can not stand the extra heat for for more than a few seconds at a time....and then the bottle runs dry.

With a blower or turbo, a 50 hp bump is safe on any pretty much any engine...but much more work to install. The hp is available at time you want it for as long as you want it. It does not load the engine all the time, just when you ask for the power.

 

MKE a good point of view. I see it like you. Nos is the greatest rubbish you can get for your money. More damage to the engine can't be done with any other stuff. If i see that crap in any customer car on the shop . An good forced inducted engine has more power, less wear, and it has the power if wanted constant not until the bottle is empty. And ofcorse you don't have more wear with an turbocharger or supercharger because you can get the performance permanent if you don't open the throttle you have not more power then without the induction. If you spray nos look on the engine dyno what the messurings are then you will see that this is much more dangerous to the engine. It doesn't kill an engine so fast like an turbo or supercharger because the normal people only put the nos in for a couple of seconds in this time the heat doesn't rise that much that a damage occur maybe because of that someone say nos is safer then an permanent charger because if you put on the gas with an permanent charger a long time full throttle and the engine is not prepared for that more perfomance it will be destroyed .. but that would happen eariler with nos but who has nos bottles that can support the engine over a couple of minutes full throttle with nos? Save the money and make the engine an good forced inducted engine with the needed changes like lower CR, maybe bigger fuel injectors, better conrods, setup of the ecu mappings, .... then you have the performance anytime you want .. solong you want.
________________________________
Samy

 

Huh? I have no idea what u just wrote...



To everyone else...
This is a good argument and one I am very very interested in...There are some direct factual differences though, for instance, cylinder temps....I am interested to hear what other peoples opinions are, as long as they are understandable...

 

Oh be nice....English is not everyone's first language

The increased cylinder temp with nitrous is not an opinion, it’s math. Nitrous is N2O, so 2 nitrogen for every 1 oxygen. Air has 4 N for every O. The nitrogen does not react, but does absorb heat. The more nitrous you addk, the higher the ratio of oxygen to nitrogen gets, which drives the temperature up.

With a turbo or supercharger the ratio of nitrogen to oxygen is not changed so the combustion temperature is not changed. There is a bit more temperature in the combustion chamber than a naturally aspirated engine do to total heat and heat transfer rates, but nowhere near what you see with nitrous.

As a reference, the rings I put in my engine came with an installation guide. It said a NA engine the gap of the top ring should be .014”, turbo or blower .018”, for nitrous they wanted .025”….double what an NA engine needs. That is because the temperature can be double and the gap allows for thermal expansion of the ring.

 

Give Samy a break. I don't believe English is his first language. He's speaking it much better than I can speak German though.

 

I've enjoyed reading all the thoughts on this upgrade. Some, (if not most), I find enlightening on the current, mindset. Here are a few of mine.

I've had many long discussions with James at Norwood's on this topic. He has extensive experieince with forced induction; I think he's especially brilliant in this field.

I'd be VERY carefull about just adding forced induction, (chemical or otherwise), to a stock motor. James is an advocate of a complete, balanced system. If you price a Norwood upgrade, you'll see it's very pricey, that's because, he covers the weak links in the drive train. My motor is modded for forced induction from the crankshaft outwards, (pistons, rings, heads, and gaskets, etc....). My guess is that what seems to be a nice power upgrade, causes problems later in other components.

Do you get the mod money back; I'd say no way, not all of it. My car has had over 40k in performance mods. You can nearly buy an early 348 for that alone! Also, most Ferrari guys are frieghtened of mods, making the audience for your car much smaller.

If anyone is interested, my 348 Twin Turbo is soon to be available for purchase. I'm moving to a 360.

J