Valve Guides

For those of you who keep track of such things - you can add my 355 to the list of those with valve guide problems. 97 spider. 19000 miles. Fine at last major (9000 miles in 2008). Ahh well.

At least plane ownership prepared me for these hiccups (and Fernando tells me that I can expect a big bump up in power when they are finished).

 

How did you determine you have an issue? What are the signs?

 

30% leakage on the leak down test during the annual.

 

sorry - meant "major", not annual

 

You're in good hands. He and Richard will make it better than new.

 

Ky - I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you'll get it fixed once and for all with no more problems.

Let me know how much you spent. I'm hesitant of buying a 355 that hasn't done the valve guides yet.

How did it happen, slowly? All of a sudden? Let us know the details

 

Agreed.

 

It happened fairly slowly (certainly gradually over the last few years). To be honest, I noticed the performance degradation only now in retrospect (our other cars are much more mundane and I've only raced Skip Barber MX-5s, which are a little less powerful - so on a relative basis the F-car seemed to be doing fine).

Mine is now 17 years old (and is not from Japan) so certain things are going to go wrong - leather dash, sticky parts, header/exhaust manifold and now valve guides. On the valve guides, I can't really give you any great wisdom. I got the car in 2008 with 9000 miles. It had never had a major until I had one done and the guides were fine then. I think Ferrari moved to more reliable guides in 99, but others on this forum would have a better sense of that.

 

I have a 97 spider with 11k and it is currently going through the valve guide process. I found out I needed to do it while getting my major. It too had a slow leak down but not over 22. I decided to do it because I don't want to have to do it later. Even though it is painful, you'll be so much happier when it is complete because you wont have that worry any more. Take care of her and she will reward you.

 

That makes sense Tim. Is there anything else you would recommend replacing or doing while they have the guts of the engine open?

 

I think you might want to tack weld the fences on certain bearings, can't remember which. They're some important ones, that's definite.

 

Thanks.

 

My experience:

Don't worry, it's not too big of a deal. My failure added about $5k to the major if no liners or pistons need replacing, but even then it's not bad. Cylinder #2 valves were shot, as a result of header tube failure. Replaced headers with Fabspeed, then I drove the car from 27k miles to 32k miles with funky valves, no biggie, she was fast the whole time. Had to replace cyl #2 liner and piston/rings, prob added about $1000 or so, I don't recall.

So yes, it happened slowly then one day the 1-4 bank shut down and under the knife she went. I did get blue smoke coming out of the exhaust on hard acceleration, that was the only symptom. The Prius crowd LOVED that little feature of my car (I'm in San Francisco, and TBH I kinda miss the smoke!).

If it really worries you just buy one with the valves done. You're not getting any younger and the cars aren't getting any cheaper. I bought my 355 at 27 and am in mid-30's now and can't imagine how lame my life would have been if I didn't take the plunge back then,
even with me having to do a top-end rebuild and bottom-end refresh (when times were tight in 2009). My car's valves failing actually made my career what it is today, but that's a really really long story and not one that I can post.

If you do a proper PPI which I know you know all about, then the valve guides being done
or not shouldn't deter you, especially if it's a higher mileage car with good comp/leakdown
numbers. Seriously, just buy one already (as long as it's a good one! )

OP: Sorry to derail the thread, and very sorry your valves need attention. You'll have a newfound love for the car when you finally get her back. I know I did! I'll try to find the fence-weld thread.

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/348-355/421875-look-what-i-found-2.html

See post 31 from 2NA, sorry I couldn't find the original thread. The bearings I was talking about are actually pulleys, my mistake.

 

Thanks cuneo.

 

Post of the day.

 

Wow, never thought anyone would say that about one of mine!! Thanks Bruce, means a lot coming from you. Maybe I should start a thread called "Valve guides aren't that big of a deal, get over it"

 

Thanks man. Great advice.

 

This is why I said that I will most likely do the valves at the next major even if there are no symptoms at the time.

Having the engine out and doing the top end at the same time seems like the way to go to me. See how I feel at the time money wise.

 

At the time of the major, you will be able to see if you have bronze or steel guides, Bob. If you have steel, it's likely you won't have a need to change them.

 

Just because they are bronze doesn't mean they are bad. Depends of the alloy.

 

It's my understanding that Ferrari changed the bronze guides to steel in the 355 due to failures with bronze.

 

After watching what Ernie is doing on his engine out service, doing valve guides and necessary valves seems like childs play.

Removing the heads and checking the valves and guides when the engine is out at about guessing 27K miles and 20 years approx. (for next major) would seem prudent to me.

Again , I 'll see how I feel at that time and hopefully I will get there without the need to do it otherwise. Gulp...

 

Hi Bob,

well, I'm not sure I'd agree that it's childs play by comparison. They will need to be machined after press and I'm not sure if doing the seats along with guides is a requirement (or good idea)?

I understand your point though, better to address when the motor is out and other work is being done.

 

Yes, they went from bronze to sintered steel. I know several techs don't feel that is the best option. Even a couple who post here have suggested Mg-bronze, I believe. Take a look at the guides sold by superformance as an example: Engine Cylinder Head Parts for Ferrari 355 - Superformance