348 Spider door Lock / LH driver side window controls interaction | FerrariChat

348 Spider door Lock / LH driver side window controls interaction

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by flyingboa, Dec 13, 2020.

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  1. flyingboa

    flyingboa Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2003
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    Eugenio
    Good morning everyone.
    Due to usual problems with the cable on the LH door, last week I decided to remove the connector, drill through it and re connect all cables by adding an extension and sealed connectors re positioned into the door.
    Job done, everything looks fine. I go out for a spin and, as soon as I press the “lock” button on the central console, the controls of both windows on the driver’s side cease to work.
    When I unlock it, everything back to normal.
    After some test, it seems that when the passenger door is locked, the problem appears.
    Is this happened to anyone else? Any idea / suggestion?
    Thanks in advance

    Eugenio
     
  2. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Well, you didn't have this problem before, so there's a big chance your mods have failed. Unfortunately, I don't have a wiring diagram for the spider. I don't know how different the wiring is from the standard car.

    Just curious... With the doors locked, do the windows move when you unlatch the roof?
     
  3. Qavion

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    How did you isolate the problem to the passenger side?
     
  4. flyingboa

    flyingboa Formula 3

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  5. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #5 Qavion, Dec 13, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
    I thought there was only one (electric) lock button for both doors? Will one only door lock if you leave the other one open?

    Why would the door lock module be broken if the door locks work perfectly. Other than common earths, the windows and doors have no interaction. Do both your electric mirrors work with the doors locked? They share a common earth on the 348GTB/GTS
     
  6. Qavion

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    Eugenio, I have a F355 Spider which has the same doorlock module, which doesn't allow either (any) door to lock if one door is open (That's why I asked you about the doors).

    The window module on my car has a different part number, but the spider window operation is similar. Knowing if your windows drop down when you unlatch the roof may help with faultfinding.

    Anyway, second hand doorlock modules are relatively cheap. Please let us know how you go.
     
  7. Qavion

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    #7 Qavion, Dec 14, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
  8. flyingboa

    flyingboa Formula 3

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    Thanks for the tip. Do I have to connect 9 to a ground point?

    I will check tomorrow, after the download of the schematics
     
  9. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    “9” appears to be an error in the Workshop Manual. On advice from some 348 owners, I have noted the real PIN numbers in the full diagram (linked).

    However, this wire is a power wire. Did you mean the “N” (black) wire on pin “4” (i.e. pin 13 on the car)? This is to be grounded in the cabin somewhere.
     
  10. flyingboa

    flyingboa Formula 3

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    Qavion,

    Thank you for the advice. Regrettably I am terribly busy with work and I have almost no time for the car.

    I will let you know as soon as I will lay hand on it.

    Thanks again

    Eugenio
     
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  11. cardude442

    cardude442 Karting

    Jun 5, 2019
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  12. Qavion

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    #12 Qavion, Sep 24, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
    Mark, is this for your window problem? Now that I think about it, I don't think the diagrams I posted will be of much use to 348 Spider owners. Those diagrams were for the non-Spider. The 348 Spider has a Window Control Unit (P/N 154769) and has completely different wiring for the windows (at least on the car side of the door connector). The non-Spiders don't have a Window Control Unit.

    In your other thread, you said that you could hear relays clicking when you operated the window switches. The Window Control Unit does have micro-relays in them, but I don't know if you would be able to hear them. On the 355 (2.7) Spider , the control unit (same part number as the 348) is under the dash to the left or right of the radio. On the 348, it's hard to say (see Item 46 in the parts manual):

    https://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/ferrari/348-27-motronic/bodywork-lighting/doors-glass-lifting-device-41222

    You may be able to match up some of the wiring on the 355 with the 348.

    Have you checked the fuse for the left hand window?
     
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  13. cardude442

    cardude442 Karting

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    "On the 355 (2.7) Spider , the control unit (same part number as the 348) is under the dash to the left or right of the radio."

    Thank you! It's a 348 Spider, manual top so we do not have the orchestration that F355 Spiders have. The location of under the dash near the radio does make sense. I was looking frantically to find the "clicking sound" when selecting the driver's window switch. I know there are relays in the fuse box in the passenger footwell, but the sound isn't even remotely from there.

    I'll do some more research and appreciate the response and hints!

    Fuses are good (in the footwell). Doing some good old tracework.
     
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  14. Qavion

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  15. Qavion

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  16. cardude442

    cardude442 Karting

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    Thanks! I appreciate that!

    I don’t think the windows have ever moved when I’ve moved the latch. I think you’ve given me a clue right there.




    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  17. Qavion

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    That manual exerpt may not be describing the operation too well. The manual suggests that you have to manually depress the switch* to activate the windows.

    Technically speaking, you just have to lift the roof an inch away from the top of the windshield. This un-depresses the switch (which sends a signal to the Window ECU).

    On the F355 (at least), lifting the roof an inch drops both windows a few inches and freezes window control until the roof is fully down.

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    *the switch is inside the hole where the roof locating pin (LHS) sits when the roof is closed.
     
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  18. Qavion

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    Some additional information which may or may not help:

    Both the 348 and 355 Spider also have some window position sensing switches in the doors which stop the windows at 5cm (2 inches) down after the roof has been lifted off the windshield top frame.

    See Item 50 in the parts manual

    https://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/ferrari/348-27-motronic/bodywork-lighting/doors-glass-lifting-device-41222

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    I'm not 100% sure of the logic, but perhaps a faulty window position switch might cause an individual window not to move manually (in a certain direction) or automatically.

    However, as you say both windows are not dropping when the roof is unlatched, so there might be a faulty Window ECU (or perhaps a combination of faulty components). Window ECUs are fairly expensive (even second hand). Ferrari P/N 154769.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/124774731928

    The Window ECU connector pinout is probably the same as the F355's. You should be able to check the inputs into the Window ECU from various switches via the ECU plug (without pulling the car to pieces). The switch inputs go to the smaller white plug on the ECU.

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