Korr if it wasn't for FIAT there wouldn't be Ferrari.
No, it IS something to brag about because if the Diablo hadn't been everything it needed to be there be no Lamborghini right now because of the very model gap you mentioned. The bottom line is that F-chatters are WAY too obsessed about the history of the marque when comparing other mfg's cars, including Ferrari's racing heritage, their famous F1 pilots, Enzo himself, etc. I'm half Italian and I of course love Ferrari's successes as well as Schumi's, but if their cars don't equal a rival's then they aren't getting a penny from me period. Nor will they get endless a$$-kissing posts on a message board either, or references to other previous models they produced that were successful ages ago. Rational consumers looking to purchase a car don't care about a company's history, for all I give a **** Lamborghini could be owned by Hyundai, but that doesn't diminish the fact that the Murci and Gallardo are world beating cars.
"The bottom line is that F-chatters are WAY too obsessed about the history of the marque when comparing other mfg's cars, including Ferrari's racing heritage, their famous F1 pilots, Enzo himself, etc. " No...were aren't too obsessed about our beloved marque's heritage. This is Ferrarichat and not italiansupercarswithouthistory.com, so we do take quite a bit of pride in our cars and in the history behind them. Lambolovers have the Miura and nothing else to compare with Ferrari. Lambo has, in its history, a receivership and a long long string of late payments and getting sold off to the next company that thinks it can make something out of a car company that has built its entire sales forecasts upon the hopes that high school boys with Lambo posters can become rich enough and can buy their garbage. THIS is why the Diablo lasted for so long. Not because it could, but because it HAD TO. Lotus is another prime example of selling ancient garbage to the uniformed masses with money. 1) Make it wicked looking 2) Who cares about quality 3) Make it wicked looking 4) Sell the garbage to people with more money than sense 5) Profit! And all those knobs that think some random dink mistaking your car for a Lamborghini is a cool thing? ...yeah...I always view the opinions of some empty-headed waitress as similiar to my own. Or some random tool off the street. Yeah...this Ferrari is a Lambogeenee.
Well this debate is all very interesting and owning a 355 ;which is what I consider to be the last classic ferrari ,I have to say I would not be tempted at all to buy a 360. I like the look of the Gallardo and (back apart) think its far more eycatching than the 360 and although the 4 wheel drive make sthe driving experience a bit divorced there is no doubt its a more capable road car. There are various factors why I have not acquired one. Firstly, the fear of huge depreciation ( ok 360s will lose a lot as well ) secondly the lack of driving 'excitement' and the third reason came to me today whilst perusing the front page of autocar magazine. On it is the new Lotus esprit, it looks sensational, in fact a bit like a gallardo. I had one of the esprit turbos a few years back and they looked stunning then - but now they are almost worthless- a car that clearly had its day- dramatic design then -but unloved now. So performance and better engineering maybe but I can still look at a 308/328 and say its a beautiful car, likewise the 355 (ok we know ferrari made some duffers as well) and the F40 ( in know thats a different kind of car) and this is demonstrated by the money these cars still fetch and will continue to do so. Is this a result of so called 'racing heritage' I think not, people want them because they are a classic and they are unmistakably Ferrari The problem as I see it is ferrari lost their way with the 360 it will not go down as a classic design and the values will reflect that so as a result any car that has a dramatic design will get the attention because Ferrari have lost the plot and although we all hate to admit - ideally we would have preferred a different design to the 360- what we wanted was another pininfarina classic and then all the arguments that have forever raged about performance would be negated because.............its a ferrari. In a recent poll I did on here 74% preferred the 355 to 360 Problem is that with so many supercars into the market in the next year, which are all good in their own way I think it will be impossible for ferrari to get back 'the magic' and the latest designs confirm that.
355f "autocar magazine. On it is the new Lotus esprit, it looks sensational" Quote I'd love to see the new Lotus... can anybody scan the autocar photo?
Last weekend there was a real race: The Daytona 24. It was won by a Pontiac. P, F, and Maser were far behind. Lambo, Pagani, MB, Lotus etc. didn't even show up. Any of you rushing out to buy a new Pontiac? Allan likes the way Lambo's look, how well they do in mag. racing, and how fast his,with NOS goes from 5-200. Others think a CS is the car for them because some mag calls it "The best Sportscar ever" None of these are or will ever be real race cars that win real races. IMHO all that matters is buying something that makes YOU happy. Drive, enjoy. None of these cars are better. They're different and there are very few of us who can test the limits of any of them. I drive one of these on the street and will soon be driving the other. That said I never delude myself into thinking I'm Mark Donohue or Lorenzo Bandini who drove them on the June day 36 years ago...
These discussions make me laugh. Who the hell cares what a 360's lap time is compared to a Gallardo, unless you are planning on racing one of them on the same track. It is really silly to make statements about seconds and fractions of seconds as to which one is faster. Hell if you want a track car save yourself a lot of money and buy a shifter Kart. Looking at both cars performance is practically equal and any difference is unlikely going to reveal itself. Buy which ever one YOU like best. Hell in my opinion I wouldn't buy either I would look for a very nice 308QV and a nice 330 2+2, and maybe a shifter kart and I would still have a lot of cash left.
Korr, you brought up an interesting point: "Allan, the ONLY reason why Lamboghini has survived to this day is because it has been passed off from investor to investor in its rather sad and notorious history as a car manufacturer. If it weren't for Audi, there wouldn't BE a Lamborghini." With the financial state that Fiat is in, do not be surprised if they have to liquidate Ferrari and Maserati. In my opinion, VW will be more than happy to have Ferrari under its umbrella.
Michael FIAT (As you are referring to it) doesn't own Ferrari. Their financial state has no bearing on Ferrari.
The Diablo was actually the first car to turn a profit for Lamborghini, and sold very well throughout its entire run. It was strong enough to hit Ferrari head on against the TR, then the 512, then the 550. Now even being discontinued, the Diablo will still put a hurting on a 575M, all day long.
I would not be insulted if someone mistook my Ferrari for a lambo! That would be a compliment! Only mistakenings ive gotten on my Ferrari are for it being a Fiero. Seriously. My lambo is never mistaken for anything, but a Lambo. Please try to stay off the build quality points. Your arguing with owners, who have Ferraris in their garage. Some of just arent blind. Ferrari build quality is no better than anyones. Please, give me break. Look through the tech sections. Look at interior wear, paint etc.
Thanks, it looks great I was just talking about it over at the other thread- "What would be different in the car market if Ferrari never existed?"
with all the discussion on this site of which is better...360 or lambo, i, being in north carolina last week was able to ask steve barney his thoughts. he said that there is simply no comparison..."gallardo blows the ferrari away in every category". now , steve barney is a "real" ferrari guy and has owned many very important cars. i do think he is being fair in his judging the two. he has already sold over 35 lambos and actually took a deposit on one while i was sitting in his office. he also had a gallardo parked next to a 360 at the dealership and the gallardo was w/o question the attention getter. hard to deny, the gallardo has dioblo like looks in a more compact package..steve will sell many more lambos than 360's. another issue...racing. if well supported and developed properly, the gallardo will be a great racing platform and may win races in a sprint format. porsche will always be the king in enduros unless ford decides to jump back in to support the gt effort. hmm!? last...last saturday night i was out in my 930 (510 hp adial engine) and i saw a gallardo and i really wanted to have a goat him to see how quick he was. got next to him and he turned off. would have been a fun run as he and i were both w/ a female passenger...would have been high stakes. who would go home in shame! lol!
Ok. It was just a simple question. I think i'm sticking with the 360 spider for the road car, and keeping the Challenge for the track. I'd love to get a Ford GT but I doubt i'd fit in it and apparently there is a LONG waiting list, not to mention 170k for a Ford. I'm still going to test drive the Gallardo and will report back my impressions.
Don't just plan on test driving a Gallardo! That's what I did..30 mins later I'm writing a check!.....AND I HATE TO WRITE CHECKS! The Ford GT may be a Ford BUT....It probably, from what I've read, will put all these damn Italian Exotics to shame?
We'll see. Based on the performance tests thus far, either the car actually is pumping out ~600hp, or Ford is providing ringers for testing. Only time will tell, however, Ford has a reputation for providing ringers (Cobra SVT).
Solly There are Fords that people have paid a bit more than 170K for. The Ford GT is 139.95K. You will be able to get one. You will also fit in one. The production cars will be at least as fast as those tested. The second generation one, which is already in the works will be faster. Best
Cobra SVT ringer? The 2003 have been regulary been dyno with much more that factory rated 390hp/390tq. 2003 Cobra are putting down around 360rwhp and with a 15% DT loss thats about 420-425hp.
I'm referring to the SVT when they first started producing them a few years ago. It was a major issue at the time. As far as the 2003's, I haven't heard anything. Anyway, the bottom line is that if the Ford GT production cars perform as well as the tested cars, they have significantly more than 500hp. That's for sure.
Getting one right now(or anytime soon) is not so easy. If it were I would bought that at 40k less than the "G" car!!!!
