Any interest in 355 and 360 headers? | FerrariChat
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Any interest in 355 and 360 headers?

Discussion in '348/355' started by stephens, Jul 3, 2004.

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  1. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #1 stephens, Jul 3, 2004
    We have been building exhaust headers, predominantly for MB's lately, but the guy who does the work for us has been doing header repairs on the 355 and 360 race cars and has suggested to me that he can build a more effective (read more power) header that would be a bolt on replacement that will net around 40hp at the rear wheel in conjunction with an ECU reflash and air filter change. Indicative cost would be $5K USD for the complete kit. If there is some real interest I can get a prototype done on both cars with back to back dyno results for you.
     
  2. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    #2 Auraraptor, Jul 3, 2004
    IMO, you would be 'cornering the Australian market.'

    The questions people are going to ask is mostly how the quality and price will relate to similar offerings from a group in the UK, and TUBI.

    Since you are starting from scratch so to speak, with no prior crediblity as the others have established be prepared to answer highly techincal questions related to build/materials/etc. Good luck and best of luck!
     
  3. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #3 stephens, Jul 4, 2004
    I'm comparing what we have seen being used by the factory race teams over here. The stuff we've seen so far has been pretty average from a performance design perspective.
    We might be starting from scratch, but we do know how to make real horsepower.
    Our MB upgrades for example costs $7K USD and increases power on the CL/SL/S/E 55 from 500hp to 650hp. Well ahead of Brabus/Kleeman/MKB/Renntech etc. If you see the EPD E55 pull alongside, unless you can run a low 11 in the 1/4 mile, don't bother trying traffic light racing!
    www.ipn.com.au/mbworld/das20.jpg
     
  4. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 Aircon, Jul 4, 2004
    Bull****. Having tried multiple mufflers and standard/motec ECU and various air filters I can say with confidence that there's no extra power to be found with a 355. Better designed headers would be nice, though. The originals keep cracking.
     
  5. RF128706

    RF128706 Formula Junior

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    #5 RF128706, Jul 4, 2004
    I agree, the 355 has been around for some time now, any claims of extra power would need to be backed up with independant dyno testing if you've a chance of winning over a sceptical "seen-it-all-before" bunch of well informed owners.
     
  6. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #6 stephens, Jul 4, 2004
    Yes, it is a bad design, which is why it cracks. The whole idea is to do back to back dyno testing for guaranteed power gains.
    The factory headers are better than found on some local cars, but not a great design. I'l admit when I'm wrong, but right now I think there is power to be had, on both 355 and definately the 360.
     
  7. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #7 ferrarifixer, Jul 5, 2004
    What race team stuff have you seen?? Which team?

    The PHR/ Maranello M/sport fleet have numerous different configurations of silencer, all of average quality by now, (after 3 years of racing), but the design remains excellent on all of them. Some offer more power, some more torque, some simply a better sound.

    And the PROCAR category (until recently) demands factory headers, so you won't have seen any changes there.

    Final point to ANY engine/exhaust mods.....horsepower only wins friends, torque wins races.
     
  8. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

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    #8 kverges, Jul 5, 2004
    you give me 40 rwhp and I am in the market. But I want my money back if I don't get the rwhp.

    and the rwhp has to be WITHOUT increasing rev limit past 8500. So that means you have to do it with torque.

    Can you do it?
     
  9. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #9 stephens, Jul 5, 2004
    I believe so. I have seen the individual results of mods, but not combined together. As I originally posted, if there is a demand, I will do development work on a 355 and a 360. When we have a proven package, it would be taken to market.
    For instance, on the 550, an exhaust mid pipe change, ECU and filter upgrade net an increase of 40kw at the wheels. I am not suggesting the same improvement on the 355/360, just that I have done this myself and know the improvements are there.

    Aircon
    Who did your Motec work? If someone can't get a performance improvement from remapping ignition alone to suit Optimax etc I'll eat my shorts. Thats without even considering fuelling, which seems to run slightly rich for optimum power, but what do I know?
     
  10. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #10 Aircon, Jul 6, 2004
    I hope you're hungry! :)
    A number of guys have had a go at it. The last guy was the best. His name's peter sortwell. Do you know him?
     
  11. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #11 stephens, Jul 7, 2004
    My 550 had simialr numbers as to the 360 and saw an almost 10% power improvement, is there something special about the V8's I'm not aware of. I have software and systems to remap ECU's while making real time changes on the dyno. I dont know Peter.
    I had a closer look at the headers today, I think you are right, although they seem to self destruct with wonton abandon, the basic design is fairly good, but a change to a four into one rather then the current four into two system would potentially provide better scavanging.
     
  12. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #12 ferrarifixer, Jul 7, 2004
    Stephen....don't be misled by Air con...his name is Peter and he's asking if you know Peter "sortwell"...get it? He's a sad man! If you don't believe me look at "his" personal website home page www.pless.com , then click on his nose to enter and read up on stuff like vanity and god knows what else...I took one look and pi55ed myself.

    He fiddles (with the Motec) himself, but I think he is right in that the gains available from 355 are not worth the expense to get them.

    Even the 360 only yields small within it's std rev limit. I've built a 360C speciale, with many internal new parts, ECU limit and map upgrade and siamesed exhaust. The spend was huge and the gain is about 40-50 BHP?, but as yet un-dyno'd...that's why I want to come and see you or vice versa!
     
  13. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 Aircon, Jul 7, 2004
    what drugs are you on mate? I'm not sure what you're on about with my website..but...errrr...ok.

    Peter Sortwell is the guy who setup my motec the last time (it wasn't an attempt at humour), and the only guy who's managed to get the car running well. Other people tried (recommended by motec) and couldn't. I don't know what Peter did differently...i would have thought it straightforward.

    I've only adjusted idle mixture and cooling fan temps.

    The only sensible thing you said is that I'm right about no power gains with a 355.
     
  14. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #14 ferrarifixer, Jul 8, 2004
    www.pless.com.au

    there was a wierd picture of you with fruit on your head or something.......

    and then there was a bit on vanity and a "petemorph" phot thing.....drugs! Me...not so!
     
  15. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #15 ferrarifixer, Jul 8, 2004
    and well done wierdo...i just checked the link......very funny, but very very sad.....
     
  16. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #16 Aircon, Jul 8, 2004
    very very sad and very very accurate. Like i said, i don't know what my website had to do with this thread, but thanks for bringing it up.

    I just noticed in another thread that FNA covers the manifolds for many years. I wonder how anyone would go here in Australia with something like that? It's clearly a design flaw, isn't it? I guess the trouble is that you still get the flawed manifold as a replacement.
     
  17. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #17 ferrarifixer, Jul 8, 2004
    The design is flawed. The materials are poor and the harmonics from the engine do strange things from vibration.

    The 360 has a rubberised cambelt tensioner mount ONLY on the left hand side. In my experience (which is about 7 or 8 problematic cars), the left hand side exhaust manifold has always been the first to give a problem. The 355's just break anywhere, and the 360's break the sample plugs out the pipes.
     

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