What would a 355 engine look like in a 308?? [pics]

Tell me about it!!! I get my butt kicked by Kia's and Saturns!! I got a friend that substatially modified his 80' 308GTS (turbo, suspension, computer...) and the last time he dyno'd it...370HP. In fact, it's the one I'm sitting in on my avatar.

 

Heres some additional pics of the project or for the true non-believers,our yahoo group has a video clip of the 308f1 project with the drivetrain installed and rolling and ready for sorting,and a quick peek at the progress of the Agnelli -Harrah Superamerica for its debut at Pebble Beach.






http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/BlackhorseMotors/files/

 

Is the clutch BEHIND the gearbox on a 355's gearbox?

If it is this makes a huge difference and possibly explains why it may be for real.

I must say whatever the bulge at the end/read of the 355 gearbox is close to the ugliest thing I have ever seen ... vomit!

Pete

 

I like it.

 

yes the clutch is at the rearmost section of the powerplant. for the gto it goes like this:

engine:clutch:differential:gear cluster

for the 355 its this:

engine:differential:gearcluster:clutch

therefor the distance between the center of the differential to the front of the belts is probably the same.

 

the first thing i mentioned today when the car came off the stands for the first time was how close it looks to the GTO from the lower beltline down

 

Yes good point. I was unaware that the 355 had the clutch hanging out the back and this changes my viewpoint completely.

Pete

 

Meaning, the distance from the front of the 355 engine to the differential C/L is the same as from the front bank of the 308 engine to the differential C/L?

It would also seem the 355 layout would actually be shorter than the 288 layout because of repositioning of the clutch hence no requirement to lengthen the chassis.

That would make sense as the clutch would not be part of the stack up of the 355 layout.

There were some guys that made the same modification locally. Don't know where the car is now but I was told it was a successfull mod.

 

I just noticed that the axles are angled forward in the picture of post #27. Not a good deal. Datsun tried that unsuccessfully on their early Zcars. Compound angles = premature U-joint failure and harmonic vibrations.

 

Look closer spasso. The left axle is unbolted. You do have a good point about the datsuns though. Anything but straight is bad for wear.

 

This is real. Look at the upper side frame rails where the upper shock mounts are. They're cut and welded to fit in the 308. The assembly isn't going back into a 355.

 

Yes you got it exactly. sorry about the confusion.

I had alway wondered about that powerplant in a Mondial T chassis. the 355 fun with the 2+2 capacity!

 

Why not bore out a 308 engine, put in High Compression Pistons, bigger cams and carbs and get more power that way? Eliminate all the electrical stuff, emmisions stuff, etc and keep things much more simple? Now you have a 308 you have to maintenance like a 355...bling bling...$$$

Isn't Nick Forza doing a 4.0L project with a 308 engine?

 

By the time you and up all money money to such mods to a 308 engine, the 355 engine swap may well turn out to be cheaper!!

 

I'm with Sean F. here.

Total costs of engine mods and body mods would be astronomical.

Cost of 355 engine/tranny vs. cost of 308 engine/tranny

higher cost of insurance, if you can insure a modified vehicle.

Adding a multitude of sensors to a previously sensorless car (ie. O2's, TPS, EGR temp, A/F sensor, knock sensor, etc) add up to easily over 1.5K

Lower resale cost upon selling vehicle due to drastic mods to body/engine.

 

Hell, I've actually been looking into swapping the 348 motor from my Mondial t for a 355 motor....

 

I think the point of this project has nothing to do with being practical guys. Sure it may not be cost friendly or efficient or even sane for that matter, but that's why it's a project... to do what hasn't been done, to make something people can awe at. Now if this goes into a large scale Ferrari swap package offered at dealerships or something then yeah it's time to call them crazy and impractical.

 

Thanks for pointing that out. In the second picture it looks like it goes right to the wheel center on the left side. Hard to tell actually.

If they can set this up straight and proper it's going to be a killer 358. Power in a configuration that the 308 should have had in the first place.

Keep us posted!

DJ

 

But the 355 maintenance cost would be scary! Still..................................

 

Great project Mr. Mitchell, but can you give some background? What forces brought the project together? Just a true 308 devotee who knows what he wants (and is getting it)?

 

Not even close. A 10:1 P6 cam 308 motor can be done for about $10k by a DIY. If Norwood or someone did it it would still be WAY less than a F355 motor and tranny all by themselves.

 

Well I have to agree with that.

 

Some things should be left alone…. Ferraris to be exact. It’s like placing a Corvette engine into a pinto…. Its doesn’t seam right!

 

Well considering the fact that you could buy a smashed 355 for relativly low money say in the 30k range (depending on damage maybe even cheaper). Now consider what you would have to do to the 308 engine to get 375hp out of it. Frist off the injection system.

If you really want full performance out of the engine, then fuel injection is the only way to go. Say 6k on the low end for that. Now you have to get into the engine. Machine work say highside of 4k. Now you need larger cylinder sleaves for the increased bore size. Now you need pistons and rings. You will also want to make the heads flow better, so bigger valves would be a good idea. Now you need an exhaust sytem to remove all that. With all this you will also have the same issuses with sensors and such as the 355 engine would. You will also have to buy camshafts...figure atleast 5k for those. Now you need to buy a complete gasket set, might as well throw new bearings and such in there as well. Now add up the labor the shop would charge to put it all together. Your at 15k with out pistons, rings, bearings, gaskets, and no labor, and no cylinder sleaves,or exhaust.

After she's in the car, she won't fire up. On a flat bed to sombody who knows how to tune with a dino and a computer. After 6-10 hours of fiddeling at 65 per hour, you now have a running car. Now you have to performance tune. Say another 3 hrs for that.

I'll bet it would end up costing about the same amount. If going normaly asperated. Now if you just put on a turbo..you still need to fuel inject electronicly. Even for a supercharger you will nedd to go fuel injection. You may less going this route.

 

I think this a great project. The only thing is, I don't see this car selling for more money than an average condition 308.

What do you guys think resale may look like?