'Protection'

Dave, we have never met. (I don't think.) You also sound like a decent enough guy. But if we ever do met, will you and the rest of you do me a big favor? Please tell me if you are carrying. Because if you are, I'm gone. It is as simple as that.

Please don't take this personally, but I don't trust you with a gun. I barely trust myself. Yeah, you can take all the gun safety courses in the world, but until you face a life threatening situation, I'm sorry, but you don't have a clue as to how you would react.

For example, there have been numberous cases in the military where Soldier A goes through the most intense fire fight in the world, without firing a shot. Soldier B, however, empties his clip without even realizing it.

Moreover, every war hero that I have ever known, will not carry a gun in public. The responsiblity is just too great.

Dr "I don't trust you. You don't trust me." Tax

 

I am absolutely delighted to discover that so many of my FChat cohorts are advocates for the right to keep any bear arms. I carry (legally) 100% of the time when I'm out in the car. You can never be sure when a car will leave you stranded in a less than ideal location. (Watch the news sometime if you think it can't happen to you.) I have been carrying for almost 20 years and I have never EVER even once had to draw my firearm and I hope it stays that way forever. But you can be sure the one time you don't have it, you will need it. I consider the protection of my family the most important thing I do. Are all you guys NRA members (I hope!)? Obviously, I'm also a strong supporter of the second amendment.

I used to carry a Taurus PT58 (.380) and then a S&W Sigma 9mm, but both were too physically large. Now I carry a Makarov. It is amazingly powerful for its small size, but even more amazingly accurate. (The 9 mm Makarov cartridge is more powerful than the .380 and less powerful than the 9 mm parabellum).

Frogman, that a class 3 or a semi-auto conversion M60? I really wanted one of the semi-auto conversions when they came out but they were a little steep. I don't want the hassle of the class 3 permit application.

Michael Carreaper, we should hang out man! Lots to talk about besides Italian cars.

Birdman

 

I don't tell anyone when I am carrying...no one's business. You have an irrational (and unhealthy) fear of guns....you are a hoplophobe. No problemo, we will just choose to avoid one another. Okay, on to other business...

PS....I don't know who your "heros" are, but I have many friends whom I consider heros (Rangers, SF and Delta) that carry all the time, both in their daily lives and when on operations.

 

Very sorry to hear that Karen.

My wife and I took the CCW classes together. I've been hunting and shooting for 40 years this year (I'm 48) but I was highly impressed at the course work we did. Emphasis the first day was on conflict resolution and options. Second day was on shooting defensively including standing an arm's length from the target and drawing and shooting from the hip (the money shot as the instructor called it; he said "You really need to learn how to shoot somebody when he's on top of you, in your face, or trying to rape you.")

The class made my wife (who has experience with hunting guns) feel much more secure about carrying and using.

An armed society tends to be a polite society.

 

I don't have a clue what a hop a a hoploph or whatever means.

But yes, people who carry guns scare me to death. (sic)

Don't get me wrong, I love to shoot guns, and I used to hunt a lot. But, I have to say that yes... a gun scares me when it is in somebody's else's hand. I have seen what they can do, and I don't wanna see no mo.

Nighty nite, DrTax

 

Oh crap, do I have to empty out my safes since you showed me yours...so I have to show you mine?

Let's just say I used to be a pretty active collector, and have an extensive collection of military arms...mostly rifles, and largely WWII and post war stuff. Have several AK variants as well (mostly AKM)...preban Steyer Maadi, Steyer Aug, M1 Garands, M1 carbines, M1A, various Colt AR15's, K98's, M44's, M91/30's, Russian SKS, Chinese SKS, etc, etc......I have largely lost interest and they just sit...most unfired.

I have a few choice arms that are used regularly for training...that's about it.

 

Let me preface this with a defensive description of my background. Military service with multiple expert quals, battalion weapons instructor, occasional M-60 gunner, lifelong gun owner and former competitive shooter (practical, pins, rifle, etc.).
None of you need the assault rifles, (M-60 I hope is a joke), and in fact I think it should be darn near impossible to get them, as you will most likely sell/trade them at some point and then they are effectively "off the grid" and who knows where they will end up. Out of paranoia I have either kept guns that I would like to sell or only sold them to parties that I know and trust. I do not want my customized SPAS 12 to be used in the next robbery on the news.
I also think that it should very difficult to get a handgun. There should be comprehensive training and stringent ongoing qualifications required to keep them, and in particular to concealed carry. My 69 YO mother in law ( and her numbskull son) decided she needed a gun for protection so she bought a brand new 9mm several years ago and has NEVER fired it. She is a danger to herself.
The only person on this thread who I KNOW has the skill and ongoing training to be an effective firearms user is Dave Handa, because I am familiar with the training operation he works for (I plan on joining your defensive knife class on the 15th Dave). Otherwise, the rest of you are an unknown and therefore a menace, in my mind.
SO, if you have not proven (and continue to prove) your comitment and skill, and WILL to use deadly force then please do not carry a gun.

I follow Dr. Tax's advice and always disappear when trouble arrives.

None of you should have guns at all. Just me.

There you go!

 

Those are most likely semi auto. The full auto guns have the very short barrels.... the semi autos must have the longer barrel with the folding stock to be considered a "rifle". If they had the short barrel, then they would be considered a "short barrelled" rifle and come under a ATF Form 4. Difficult to transfer...and a hassle to own.

If they are full auto, then the barrel length becomes irrelevant, as the "machine gun" licensing portion becomes the over riding aspect.

 

An older pic of my "guys":




The CETME will get the full Hk furniture upgrade with the wide forearm/bipod soon!

 

Clarification. Former military. Currently soft (very) civilian. Support ownership and carry with objective and measurable training and skills qualification. I assure you that within minutes someone at a qualified training center can tell if you are dangerous, a novice, safe, skilled or an expert. Ongoing regular repeated testing and training. Do I need also say detailed and thorough background check, and mental evaluation.

 

I carry this under the seat of my 550. umm...the seat's been modified.

 

oddly enough, I thought it was about stongard/expel/crystal guard type of applications.

currently: no f-car, no gun.

 

Avoid being made. Never expose a weakness. Avoid dangerous and potentially hostile environments, if there is no out, then the situation will be handled swiftly and accordingly.

I have a Colt Sportster(AR-15) along with a few uppers that I can change out. CQB is most likey scenerio in suburbia, therefore the short one is always installed for ready status. The long is rigged to reach out and touch. I can attest to the rifle as being accurate and highly reliable. That round, though small, delivers high trauma to the intended target resulting in higher put down rate success.



M4 upper? That has to be a pre-ban. The Gemtech only knocks the sound down by 28-30 db or so, even then, if you fire subsonic rounds, you still can't silence the bolt clacking back and fourth. It's not like the movies! (IE: Terminator 2, Sarah Conner character firing an silenced M4 at Myles Tyson).
This rig here, even by civillian standards is a solid solution to most problems encountered. Just ask the LAPD SWAT during that little Bank robbery a while back.

 

It's covered. Never said I run FMJ

 

nice stuff here, to answer a few questions, the Uzi's are preban semi auto, note the " closed bolts" , clearly indicating they are semi auto. all full auto uzi family weapons fire from an open bolt. i am hoping to get a supressor for one of them as time and ferrari funds allow. 10 inch barrels can be fitted but technically that requires a federal class 3 transfer for a short barreled weapon. under current law , no civilian can convert any semi auto firearm to full auto. period. only law enforcement on a special federal letter head can do this. only pre 1986 ban weapons can be converted to full auto IIRC.

 

Many years ago (80's, I think), the rape statistics in Orlando grew to the point that the police chief was appalled at the number of carry permit applications.

He offered a gun safety class, expecting a dozen or so women to attend. Over a hundred showed up.

The local press got ahold of the story, and ran it as a "look how violent our society has become" piece.

Violent crime in Orlando dropped significantly after the story ran.

DrTax -- you're not the only frightened by the notion of an armed population. The criminals are scared, too. -- Especially as they don't know which ones may be carrying.

That being said, there is a large comittment that goes with armed carry. Not only to know how to safely carry and clear a weapon, but knowing the applicable laws as to when it may be used.

A friend in Tampa inquired about getting a gun permit. I advised her to go with pepper spray -- less consequences if you mis-read a situation.

NNO, when I first started carrying, I was also concerned about keeping my anger in check. Eventually, I discovered that I could get literally hopping mad, and the only urge to reach for the gun would be if it was bouncing out of the holster. (Literally "hopping mad", in one instance. )

Being, at the time, in an area where the proliferation of car alarms led to a massive increase in carjackings, and being advised by my firearms instructor to think through situations before they occur, I concluded that my car isn't worth a human life -- even a carjacker's. If they don't open fire, I'd never reveal the concealed carry and try to keep the situation calm (as much as possible). ("It's insured -- watch the second gear shifts")

A gun isn't a magic talisman of necromantic power. It is a tool with a severely limited number of applications -- even fewer that some automotive "special tools". But most of us have learned the value of having the right tool for the job.

 

Very well put DGS, you obviously understand the the meaning of "deadly force" and the laws (which are much different for a citizen than for law enforcement) which govern the justification of deadly force. In NYC the only four justifiction for the use of D.F. are to stop or prevent, murder, arson, rape or bank robbery, and only after any and all other possible methods are exploited and have failed. You can not use it to protect property, burgelry, car theft, or home invasion WITHOUT being threatened FIRST with deadly force. And for anyone whos says "if someone is in my home I'll shoot first ask questions later" well without being threaten with deadly force, that guy who was stealing your DVD player would have been doing 6months probation, you will be doing 10 years for unjustified murder. And when I hear "I'll just put one of my kitchen knives in his hand", police aren't stupid. Let them take the car, take my wallet, steal my bicycle, run away, scream for help, BUT if threatened with deadly force and there is absolutely positively no way out, don't draw a weapon just to scare someone....

 

Karen,

Sorry for what happened to you. Something very similar happened to my sister's best friend a couple of years ago. I admire your courage, and my prayers and best wishes are with you.

I got permission to start carrying a gun in my car at a very early age. My father became a judge when I was just entering high school, and shortly thereafter participated in some high profile cases. That, coupled with the fact that he was the first African American judge in the area helped to flame many threats. Because my sister was so much younger than me at the time and NEVER alone, many people thought that if someone actually had the balls to do something, they would move against me - his only son and oldest child....after all, if you really want to hurt a man, go after those he loves and treasures the most, right? Well, I was chased home a couple of times by some grown men, and my father decided that it was time that I learn how to protect myself RESPONSIBLY and if need be, my family. I was 16.

Fortunately, I have NEVER had to pull a weapon on anyone. God knows that since then I have been in a couple of situations where I thought that I would have to, but only would I have done it as a last resort and then (and only then) would I draw with the intent to stop the threat, not kill. I have never carried a weapon on my person, but I do keep one in each of my cars.

Dr. Tax,

I understand many of your points, and many people feel as you do until it is too late and they have become a victim.

cheers

 

At my bosses villas across in mainland europe away from the UK, i have two 9mms. A CZ85 and a Glock. In my line of work these tools are ample, i use a spring loaded shoulder rig. I like the CZ best out of the two. But i realy must get him to buy me a HK MP5K, but the boss thinks it may be a touch much, shame realy becourse i did alot of my C.P.O training with them, i have got to convince him, LOL! Nothing compared to the tools that i have seen on this thread but hey i am english man trying to get by in this mad world.....