How did i find out you were a master technician GTO84'
LOL, peice of cake? 18 y.o kid graduates from high school, signs on the dotted line, joins his favorite branch of combat service. A few weeks later, he/she is armed and required to carry a fully automatic M16 rifle and in 3 months is capable of using some of the most advanced weapon systems in the world according to their specialy. ONE YEAR or so for a civillian permit in NY to carry what... a handgun? Before you guys blast me on the analogy, I was trying to highlight the contrast in how a teenager is given more destructive force to operate and control in a short amount of time, than a level headed civillian with a semiauto handgun. You and I know, that the purpose to carry in the general public, is not an offensive tactic.
And taking pictures of it Ok, Its actually a fake rifle but nobody will know when I'm running for office
I competed in High Power Rifle for years and am a certified instructer in many disciplines. I have never known a law abiding gun carrying citizen who was not the first to try to extricate himself (herself) from a bad situation peacefully. The gun is always considered a LAST resort. BTW when I carry it's a SIG P228 in 40 S+W.
The NRA is trying to get concealed carry for civilians in all 50 states. Theyre trying to make it easier for the average upstanding citizen. What's Arnold Schwarzeneggar's standpoint on this? Anyone know?
That is a military "rubber" training rifle (with what appears to be a padded M60 machine gun web strap)...it has a used M16A1 barrel molded into it. I bought one of those at a surplus store a few years ago....the military uses them for drill practice and presumably for "bayonet drills" and the like. BTW, why is he wearing a black t-shirt? Thought they were supposed to be military brown...or green if Marine or Navy.... Dave
I'm not disagreeing that it is a crazy long process to get a civilian permit. I support trained civilians having the ability to carry. But, I don't understand your analogy. Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe these grunts can't take any auto weapons off base and they need to be signed out. They are only "given" this equipment during a military action. So, they are not "carrying" on US civilian streets. Also, I think it makes perfect sense that we give these 18 year olds the responsibility / ability to kill. After all, we trust 18 year olds to drink alcohol legally. Oh wait, no we don't..........
Wow, very interesting thread. I must be really naive, but I had no idea so many people carried guns around with them. The realization is sobering, knowing that half the people on the road are armed. Scares the s@#t out of me. I am not into to carrying weapons and have never needed one, though I have been around and traveled quite a bit in some very dangerous places. My son was attacked in SF once for being in the wrong place and beaten by several men(he was 18 at the time). He chose to assume defensive protective position and not fight back. Luckily, they got bored and left after a good beating. He was very lucky I admit, but if he had been carrying a gun, my bet is he would be dead now. Its a very touchy situation and I am not second guessing here, just expressing reservations and apprehension. For the professionals like Chaa and the people that have been victimized like Venusone, I can totally understand but why most people would choose to arm themselves is beyond me. Would most of you really shoot someone? And will you all be packing at Montery? Could be intense down on Main St......
LMAO...! i think most of these folks pack because they don't want to become victims... i can remember the last time someone pointed a gun at my head and i gotta be honest with you - i would've preferred they didn't... If i had a gun of my own, i could've prevented the whole thing from- well, actually, it would've turned into a blazing battle of flying bullets and we would've both probably died... ...ok, ok, bad example, but i think you know what i'm trying to say... ...right...?
Which brings us back to the original thread -- Be careful how you engage in road rage. (Heinlein always asserted that an armed society was a polite one.) There is a large commitment involved in legal carry. As long as others are willing (and legally able) to make that commitment, the criminals won't know whether you're carrying or not -- so you can choose not to. But in juristictions where legal carry is obstructed by regulations - or by local attitudes - criminals, or those simply bored and looking to take their frustrations out on others, don't worry about it. Reread that sentence. If it's valid to defend yourself after being a victim, isn't it also valid to defend yourself instead of becoming a victim? Last resort. Some situations can be calmed down. Others will get violent regardless of effort. But if it's him or me, I vote that the bad guy gets it. I still "see red" when I see stories about people being victimized -- not because they don't have a gun to defend themselves as much as because they don't have a thought to defend themselves. There was a famous case in NYC, where a gunman shot up a public transit train, and was finally taken down by riders when reloading ... for the fourth time. Were they really waiting for the police to arrive -- in a moving elevated train? A gun is merely a specialized tool. A lightweight +P controlled expansion 9mm often does less damage than splitting the perp's skull with a heavy briefcase. The only "dangerous weapon" is kept between the ears ... provided it's loaded.
DGS, good reply, I can appreciate your point of view and respect your right to carry. I have had a gun pointed at my head before and yes, if I had been carrying, my life would be different for sure. I can appreciate being focused on not becoming a victim, but I also see an escalating level of hollywood and video game fueled violence in this country and do not like the trend. If everyone carrying had the same respect and attitude as you and some of the others in this thread, it would be much different, but unfortunately, it seems like another example of having to reduce the situation to the lowest common denominator, and in this country the bar is pretty low in some areas. At any rate, please be careful all you folks packing and don't make any mistakes you will regret all your life. I do remember a story I read and enjoyed a while back. A young couple was returning from a gun range in their suburban ride and for some reason had a problem with a car of gang members in LA. Someone in the gang car fired into the couples car, which also contained their daughter, so they pulled out their weapons and opened fire on the very suprised gang. I don't believe anyone was seriously hurt but as you say, put some strong messages out. John
The actual number of people legally carrying concealed averages in the single digits in the USA. Even in states like Texas, Florida or WA which have higher percentages than most states, it might be 9 or 10%....IIRC. Dave
Really sorry to read about what happened to your son. a firearm is NOT the end all answer to all problems. BUT THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL I AM GOING TO JUST LAY THERE AND LET 1 OR MORE PEOPLE beat on me. if cornered i will do what i have to with whatever weapon / vehicle/ trashcan ect is around me. i am 140 pounds soaking wet and i am not going to stand there and fight. i am going to kill them, if the situation requires such action.
Well, that response makes me very proud of my sons wisdom. He is a very athletic 6'4" man who confident and capable. But when faced with an attack by five grown men who are gang members and probably carrying weapons, I believe he did the right thing by not encouraging them. He happened into a bad neighborhood and it was a gang territorial thing that could have ended much worse. I believe your stated approach would end badly. At any rate my point in bringing up the story originally was that often times, having a weapon would only make a situation worse or at least more dangerous for the person carrying and possibly innocent bystanders as well. Like I said, I think there are times and situations where it might be very appropriate to be armed, but in my opinion, just not as many as our culture would have you believe.
riverflyer- I have found that carrying has the exact opposite effect that concerns you. I find I will go to *extreme* legenth to avoid even being in a potentially bad situation/area. I was threatened (death threat no less) while carrying about a year ago, and I immediately got up and left. Had I not had the gun on me, I may have stuck around and said something back like 'yeah, right' or 'go f*** yourself'. Being armed is a tremendous responsability, one we must weild with the greatest care and disgression. It is only and absolutely an ultimate LAST resort. I am sorry for what happened with your son, as a father it must have been very difficult to deal with. I am glad he wasn't killed or disabled, and sometimes there just isn't much we can do. I do know that I personally have been made aware of entering similar situations that I might not have been attentitive to quite so early, due in part to the added sense of responsability and awareness that comes with embracing an armed existance. I don't go anywhere with the gun I wouldn't go withought one, I just go there boldly with condifence and awareness, if that makes any sense. PS: 9mm Glock 34 here, Winchester RA9TA +P+. Also Remington 7400 .30-06 (not great, but AR-15s were banned already.) and an Armalite AR-30 in .338 Lapua Mag, which is fantastic.
