Enzo Ferrari and American crash standards

Indeed ... and not necesserily for the worse. At least, Ferrari has no SUV in their line up, no sedan either. But yeah, they aren't independent anymore, and they keep the big selling "crap" for Maserati ...

On the other hand, americans are much more passionate about cars than europeans (except germans, and a minority of brits). Really. I've seen both, and no on in France would ever think of chipping his Peugeot 607. Here, I have a friend who had a chip for his CTS right off the showroom.

PS ... I would have loved Ferrari to stay independent ... like some german based company, even though they had to include unconventional models.

 

Gee I love these sweeping stupid statements ... this one is so good and wide, I would have thought it was one of mine

Please rationalise that statement (along a much more mature line than chipping cars somehow makes you passionate about cars ... WTF!?!) ... remember the cars that you supposed Americans lust after are MADE by Italians ... surely thus the Italians (Italy is in Europe, outside of the Good Ole USA, BTW) must know a few things about passion and automobiles.

Remember there are many different ways to express passion towards things. Some lust after dead standard, unmodified cars, others must put their mark on the car before it can be considered their own ... others just worry about performance, etc. Just like with women there are many different things that move us enthuisasts ...

Pete
ps: What I think you meant to say is that Germans debateably drive their cars harder. There was a study done many years ago that collected servicing stats and they found that German cars went through their brake pads faster than any other country ... thus you could infer that they brake harder, etc, etc, etc.

Not sure where Americans fit in their, but I would imagine that 75+% of American cars are autos ... thus their brake use would be higher because of that ...

 

Stupid? Well, then you're right, I guess. Oh, and f*ck off too, while I'm at it. Geez.
I stand behind it though. Americans in general are much more passionate about cars (no matter what car) than europeans. If you think that's stupid ... well ... be it. Then ask me to rationalize? Yeah, sure.
And WTF does brake pad wear have anything to do with it? Whateva.

 

Okay I appologise, I can see you are too young to understand what I wrote.

Brake pad wear indicates that you brake harder, thus driver harder and faster and thus enjoy the performance of the car. Usually somebody that is 'into' something, ie. passionate about it, uses it more and harder ... heck I was trying to give you something to back your rediculous comment up with.

Remember Ferraris are designed and built in Italy ... I see nothing that is created in the USA that causes as much of a stir, even in the USA, as a Ferrari ... so how can the Americans have rights to being more passionate about automobiles?. Why don't the American automotive companies design this passion into the boring boxes they create? ... they try to but practicality is allowed to get in the way of the passion. Me thinks that Italians are passionate about anything they get into (and don't let practical thoughts stop the flow either) and that is why their designs grab other people the way they do. Pity they are not passionate about quality also

Pete
ps: remember just because a huge number of people in the USA consider themselves car enthuisasts does not mean that you can claim that the USA has the rights to consider themselves more passionate about cars. You have to compare the number of enthuisasts per population. I'm betting out of the huge population of the States that a fair few of your fellow Americans could not give a stuff about the car (just like in Australia) ... hence the American auto manufacturers have to make cars to suit them also.

It would be an interesting (but pointless) survey ... but there is a good reason that FIAT, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Lamborghini and Ferrari all originate from Italy ... it is not just luck, but Italy's blind obsession with the automobile.

 

Apologies accepted ... allow me to elaborate. But I do agree your comment about brake wear was more stupid. Must be the experience.

I have lived in Italy, France, US and now Canada ... so I really do think I have seen a bit (unlike my age would tell).

Fact is, in Italy, people are devoted to the brand. Talk Ferrari, they love it, talk Lambo, they love it ... but get out of this part of glorious italian history, and you end up with Fiat 500s everywhere. Nothing wrong about the car itself, but a lot, if not most, people only use their car for commuting purposes and only want it to start every morning. The presence of ultra-talented craftsmen is IMO the reason of Italy's high end car success ... well ... sorta. Lambo has been sold and bought 2345 times until VAG bought them ... Ferrari is owned by FIAT ... soon owned by GM ... anyways.

On the other hand, Britain is much better. Sure, they have TVR (independent sports car company, thumbs up!) AM, Jag etc ... but you also have a myriad of tiny manufacturers that put out a few cars a year, for the love of the car, and there is a demand for hta kind of products. Ariel is what comes to my mind right now as an example, but there are many more. And loose laws help these manufacturers too.

France? Bah! They don't give a crap. Heck, Matra disappeared (actually was sold recently) and no one cared. Same goes for Alpine. Tell Italians Ferrari is closing down, and you have riots! Sure Peugeot , Renault and Citroen put out rather sophisticated modern cars (referring to the 307s and Meganes) ... but that's as far as it will go. Not an ounce of automotive passion over there.

I judge a country's passion for cars by the amount of mini-manufacturers and "tuners". If they are there, it means there is a demand. What I tried to illustrate with the "chip" thing is that in NA, I have noticed a huge proportion of people that modify their car, because they want to like it even more, and because it's not just a commuter that gets you from A to B. I dunno, mods show that you care about YOUR car ... hence are passionate about it. As concentration, then britain seems to rank up there. But in sheer mass, the american market can not be overlooked (to get back on subject).

I dunno ... if there aren't people who love their cars, who would waste stupid money on them ... how would Lingenfelter, Hennessey, AutoThority, Gemballa, Oettinger, RUF, Brabus still be around? Thank the US and the germans! ... well ... that's getting a bot forward, but you get the idea. How about grandpas buffing their 56 Chevy every weekend? I dunno ... people just like their cars. They have different tastes (Vettes, F-cars, trucks ... etc), but they do care about their cars.

PS ... I generally hate america's ego-centrism ... but I gotta give that to 'em.

And my statement has no exclusivity feature! There are passionate people in Europe and on too big islands too. I just think there are less of em than NA.

A bit more clear?

 

Fair enough ... and I love this post of yours, so I will reply. Much better than the sweeping statement one and the next less charming one.

BTW: The brake wear thing was done by some magazine I believe to find out which countries drivers used the car more and harder ... to me that equates to more passionate drivers, but I can see how that is only one side of the coin.

That is where I have to disagree. Lets analyse the ultra talented craftsmen ... how do you think they came about?

Well they came about because when these young Italians were born they got whipped up into the automobile passion (probably by their parents) and thus this started a yearn for this child to work in this field. You don't become a talented craftsmen just because it pays well ... you have to have the passion FIRST.

Now lets talk about FIAT 500s. Yes ever country has to have their run of the mill car, but if you think that is all the FIAT 500 is, then you don't understand Italians. The FIAT 500 IS most definitely a base car, but it is not a base car like Australia or the US would have made ... it has character and a heart. Wind the clock forward many years and you have the Alfa Sud ... the equivalent base car (government project for Alfa Romeo) and I've owned one of these things. Yes these cars are basic, but man they are brilliant cars that have all the features of much bigger cars ... because Alfa Romeo could not help themselves. Italians cannot design dull cars ... we can easily, but they cannot.

Hmmm, interesting. Britain does have many industries that hang off motor racing ... Italy used to have plenty, ie. Abarth, Zagato, Stangulini, etc. but thanks to the lack of attention to the books most have gone bust or be consumed by the larger companies.

I'm not sure that the fact that they make these cars equates to being more passionate ... but I guess it is close. When one thinks of the major British manufacturers, passion is far from the designers list of qualities ... more likely cheap and nasty corner cutting

Agree, even Bugatti was actually Italian.

Again though you have to do a per population calculation. I'm sure there are more modifiers of cars in America than the whole population of New Zealand for example ... but per head of population Kiwis (New Zealanders BTW) would rate right up there ... I know as I am one

Yes but this passion is not displayed by the major manufacturers in the US, when in Italy the companies constantly face financial issues because they will not allow practical considerations to restrict their passion. You only have to look at 60's and 70's FIAT and Alfa Romeo saloon cars ... ALL powered by all alloy, twin over head cam engines ... no wonder they struggled to make money

Much better, than a unsubstantiated comment ... but I still don't agree ... Italians do not need to modify their cars like Americans do, because the designer put enough in that they are already in love! That is why I am an Italian car nut and love my Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV with all its faults ... because every time you throw it into a corner you can feel the fact that the designers ensured that it was thrilling to drive and fun ... not just transport, that is how I judge a countries automotive passion, ie. the products they produce.

Pete
ps: I've owned and worked on many British things ... er, some call them cars ... and with a few exceptions they are all junk, designed down (way down) to a cost with so many short comings it is amazing. There is a reason why the British automotive industry **** itself and is now considerably smaller in size ... the same country that made those things cannot, ever in my opinion be considered passionate about the automobile ... just never