348 wheel mounting--proper torque for lug nuts? ALMOST LOST A WHEEL! | FerrariChat
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348 wheel mounting--proper torque for lug nuts? ALMOST LOST A WHEEL!

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by 348SStb, Aug 18, 2004.

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  1. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 9, 2004
    2,991
    Palm Beach County, FL or Nassau County, NY
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    Dave
    #1 348SStb, Aug 18, 2004
    Hi all,

    Well, I had to take the wheels off to install a Tubi muffler and test pipes (see the "Classic" section for my post regarding the sound). My mechanic told me it took him 15-20 minutes to get one of the wheels off because a certain Ferrari shop whose name shall remain anonymous tightened the friggin wheel with an absurd amont of torque--like 200 ft-lbs or something. The other wheels were way too tight as well. My mechanic said he was futzing around with every method so as to not ruin the wheel, including using the high pressure gun... he eventually got it off safely.

    After we finished fitting the Tubi, I personally tightened the lug nuts after the wheels were mounted. I used not quite all my strength; they were pretty darn tight--a substantial amount beyond "hand tight."

    Today, I almost lost the problem wheel. I pulled over and discovered that the nuts were loose enough to be moved with my fingers.

    Here are my questions:

    1) What is the factory recommended torque for tightening wheels on a 348? (can't find it in the book)
    2) Did I over- or under-tighten the lug nuts in your opinion? My tightening of the other wheels seemed to have been good enough for them to stay tight.
    3) Has this problem wheel undergone irreversible damage due to the gross over-tightening that it had endured?
    4) What is the solution for putting this particular wheel on--should the proper torque amount be used or should it be tightened until kingdom come?
    5) What is the solution for putting the other wheels on--what torque should be used?

    Multiple opinions are appreciated! I can't go driving until I figure out what I should do.

    Regards,
    David
     
  2. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
    2,559
    Chicago
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    Philip
    #2 pma1010, Aug 18, 2004
    You should be fine with 85 ft lbs
    Philip
     
  3. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
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    #3 enjoythemusic, Aug 18, 2004
    Agreed, 85 seems sane.
     
  4. BigHead

    BigHead Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2003
    995
    Outside of Boston
    Full Name:
    Dennis
    #4 BigHead, Aug 18, 2004
    Factory torque spec is 72 ft-lbs. You can, of course, tighten it even further, but there is a reason the factory specified what it specified.

    Re having your lug bolts tightened too much - theoretically, if you exceed the recommend torque by too much (waaaay too much), you can (a) stretch the bolt, (b) warp the brake disc, (c) damage the wheel hub, and/or (d) damage the wheel itself. Not to make you paranoid or anything, but this COULD happen. It's tough to say what is or is not likely to have happened, especially if you don't know just how tight they over-torqued it.

    vty,

    --Dennis
     
  5. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 8, 2003
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    Vincent
    #5 vincent355, Aug 18, 2004
    Factory recommends 72 ft-lbs
     
  6. Diablo

    Diablo Formula Junior

    Jan 6, 2004
    443
    In front of the comp
    #6 Diablo, Aug 18, 2004
    I believe torque on the 348 is actually 74 lb.ft. but there are some shops that torque to 80.

    I heard this a long time ago:

    If a person has a wheel fall off,they can sue.
    If they can't get the wheel off, they call a tow truck.
     
  7. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
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    Omar
    #7 Auraraptor, Aug 18, 2004
    Well said.

    How do you guys manage proper pounds when hand tightening? I take off and put wheels on a decent bit myself in my garage and was wondering.
     
  8. Merdav

    Merdav Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2004
    980
    #8 Merdav, Aug 18, 2004
    Dave didn't we go through this Friday with my car too!? If the other wheels were fine you probably just forgot to tighten that one. Just make sure you tighten them in the proper sequence (opposing nut each time).
     
  9. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
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    shanb
    #9 ShanB, Aug 18, 2004
    100 N/m is what I use (same as 74 ft/lb)
     
  10. BigHead

    BigHead Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2003
    995
    Outside of Boston
    Full Name:
    Dennis
    #10 BigHead, Aug 18, 2004
    Torque wrench. Inexpensive ones (<$25) can be had from Tire Rack; nicer but still cheap ones can be had from Sears (<$50).

    vty,

    --Dennis
     
  11. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    #11 Auraraptor, Aug 18, 2004
    Thanks Dennis, I was just using an extension on the handle of my metric hand wrench. This seems like a better idea. :p

    Since I am switching my wheels to factory 18s and bolts from a Modena, should I use that setting to torque my wheels or the OEM 328 setting? I wonder since the new wheels are notably heavier then the stock 16s.
     
  12. Noelrp

    Noelrp Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2001
    630
    SSF
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    Noel
    #12 Noelrp, Aug 18, 2004
    Speaking of torque wrench. I have a Husky from Home Depot. It has the same quality/guarantee as Craftman at a lower price ($59.96).
     
  13. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #13 enjoythemusic, Aug 18, 2004
    Agree with Home Depot as they are more liberal/casual on exchanging/warranty as Sears/Craftsman has a 1 year warranty and dealing with Sears is getting to be a PIA :(
     
  14. Smiles

    Smiles F1 World Champ
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    Matt F
    #14 Smiles, Aug 18, 2004
    WHAT???

    Do you guys mean that cranking down until the impact gun stops isn't right?

    ;)
     
  15. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
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    Apr 9, 2004
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    #15 348SStb, Aug 18, 2004
    Thanks to all... great help!

    So, despite the fact that my wheel was overtightened previously, I should just tighten the wheel to the proper torque and try it out?
     
  16. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
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    Apr 9, 2004
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    #16 348SStb, Aug 18, 2004
    By the way, the unnamed shop that overtightened my wheels torqued them to over 100 ft.-lbs. When my guy tried to take the wheels off with the gun, 100 ft-lbs wasn't a high enough setting. The wheels came off only with the gun set to 150. So somehwere between 100 and 150 was the extent to which the wheels had been overtightened.
     
  17. mikeyr

    mikeyr Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    2,154
    Santa Barbara, CA.
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    Mike Rambour
    #17 mikeyr, Aug 18, 2004
    I would not think that over-torquing to somewhere between 100 and 150 would damage the wheel or wheel studs enough to be a problem...could warp a rotor but that torque should not cause a future problem. Just torque them to 72 and drive around 15-20 miles and check the torque, drive another 100 and check it again and forget it.

    By the way when I change a wheel, I always torque it down and drive 20-30 miles and re-check the torque and forget it until the next time the wheel comes off, been doing that ever since a wheel came loose on me 25 years ago, sometimes they seem loose at 20-30 miles sometimes they dont but they never seem to loosen after the second torquing.

    I only recommended a 3rd torquing for you since you are concerned about damage.
     
  18. 348paul

    348paul Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2002
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    Paul Hill
    #18 348paul, Aug 18, 2004
    Have a good look at the seating area (in the 5 holes) where the bolts mate up to (the 60 degree conical part of the bolt). I believe that the 348 has a seat that is pressed into the wheel - on the 355's they have a terrible tendency of cracking and is a major contributor of wheels coming lose.

    Cheers

    Paul
     
  19. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #19 enjoythemusic, Aug 18, 2004
    EXCELLENT ADVICE!
     
  20. richard_wallace

    richard_wallace Formula 3

    Feb 6, 2004
    1,957
    Cincinnati, Ohio
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    Richard Wallace
    #20 richard_wallace, Aug 18, 2004
    Since I have heard of about 3 people on F-chat - Losing a tire while driving... I make it a habit of - while dusting off my wheels after each run, or before - I do a quick check of a few - minimally by hand... But usually with my handy little lug not wrench - I usually check a few on each wheel...

    Ohhh the paranoia...
     

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