The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Targa Florio!



Now THERE's a thought........

 

I for one am very interested to see Doug Nye's and p4replicas replies to what Wayne Spardling had to say after examining the car....

I can guess however: He is mistaken. The Wily Mr. Piper would never have made this sort of mistake, its just not possible, this car is not and never will be 0846 and Jim is actively pushing fraud.....


Call me a prophet boys, I can tell the future!



Terry

 

on this thread alone Speedy has anwsered his own posts a record 4 times in a row then to be followed by 3 in a row

Congrats post whore

Now
the best line from Pebble after JG picked up a little thing called 002C "At least now I have a Ferrari that no one is going to have a problem with me Calling it a Ferrari..." Class act Jim

 

Jim:

Everyone is an expert, until confronted with facts.

Forza to you and your wife. Mine won't let me do much anymore either, but ou can have a lot of fun anyway.

Hope I can see the cars and meet you in person someday.

Lee

 

Well I respect Doug, but he hasn't seen the car. P4Rep can just STFU. Or provide pix of him there at the time.

Piper just rat-holed a bunch of old crap no one else wanted until it was worth something. good in the day, but I wouldn't ask Whine Pablo about Williams chassis provenance either

Lee

Oh damn, now I'm replying to my own posts...ALAN!!! 8)

 

Well, see.....

When every one else is speechless.........

Speedy has something to say!!!

I think it must be left over from the typewriter days, I slap the "enter" key like a 'carraige return'........LOL!

 

....not that anyone CARES what Speedy has to say, mind you......



*more golf clapping for Napolis*

That Monterey must be something to see, in person.......how did it run at the track? Feel pretty much as expected?

Let's here some feedback from behind the wheel...take us around a lap thru the corkscrew..........

 

Where the heck do you get those Avons?

I have a number for Goodyear Racing here in the Rolodex, if ya need it!

Fred Gamble retired to Hawaii.....

 

Guess that about wraps up the is it or isnt it debate!

Congrats Jim, when will we be seeing some more pics of your new toy?

Regards

 

point......set.......match!

 

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Well, I, for one am convinced re 846. As for 002C, as long as it is stated that the coachwork is "replica", and was done in the US in the 60s.......

 

re 002

http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All.Ferraris/Detail/002C.166.Spyder.Corsa.htm

don't ya think this is a story in and of its self? regardless it is REAL

 

Congratulations Jim!

I think you just found a big missing piece of history and I suspect your 104 pages brochure just got a little thicker.

Sounds to me that this is the end of the story and Jim rides 0846 into the sunset. The End.

PS: Piper must be eating his shoes being green with envy.

 

Yea, I saw that. I dont post over there.... but I do lurk from time to time.

Doug may be jet lagged. He said:

"Uh-huh - I met Wayne Sparling too, at Pebble Beach on Sunday. Steady on Mr G. - in my last post I was giving you the benefit of the doubt..."


But the post that he is referencing as giving the benefit of the doubt to JG said:

"But what he has - regardless - remains a deeply flawed motor car and is NOT to be regarded as '0846'. It might - just MIGHT - be the closest we can now get to it...but I still truly doubt it. "


Hmmmmmmm. If that is giving Jim the benefit of the doubt, then I would really be interested in seeing how Doug would go about stating his opinion if he felt there was NO doubt that it WAS NOT 0846!

If Jim has the actual chassis remains, trans and possibly some of the engine parts (if not an actual engine that was in 0846 at some point back in the day) then he has as much or more "original content" than MANY other currently accepted vintage Ferrari race cars.

Still, I suspect Piper would never admit to this type of mistake and thus will go to the grave saying its nothing more than one of his continuation chassis and so the debate will never end. At least for some people. For me.... I have a very hard time seeing any good arguement for it NOT having a legitimate claim to 0846 given the evidence and expert commentary.

Terry

 

I have posted my thoughts in the 001 and 002 "first Ferrari" thread in the vintage section of this site, and also in letters that have appeared in Forza and other Ferrari magazines...

 

I agree with you Terry......Doug Nye went so far 'round the bush with his position statement, I was as lost as last year's Easter Eggs!


Then when JG calls him on it....he waffles some more!

 

Well I think he hurt his own reputation right when he doubted 0846 after saying that he hasn't seen the car. You can't have it both ways. Either you see it and form an opinion or you keep quiet.

As far as the "tosser" argument goes: My personal belief is, that if somebody was fortunate enough to end up a rich guy, he has moral obligation to society to "entertain the public". Guys like Fosset, Paul Allan and Tito are my heroes. Jim driving his race cars through NY traffic qualifies as well. Guys who just quietly sit on their millions - e.g. Bill Gates - miss the boat in my book. I don't mind millionaires, as long as they're eccentric.

 

Take a "DNA" sample of the portion of Glicks chassis he sais is #0846 and compare it to another genuine chassis...#0848...or whatever was built at the same time.
Now...I don´t beleieve...#0900...or the rest were built from the same stock of steel tubes...as the original.
Staff.

 

DNA is for once living organisms. not metal. carbon dating wont work since they cant get it that close. spectral analyisis could isolate the specfic alloy stuctures and amounts. BUT! i think Mr G has presented enough that it is 0846.
IF the esteemed Mr Piper could really say it is not 0846, then why would he not? after all that has been said, implied and threatened, to me his silence is affirmation of the facts as presented. his ( alleged ) shady parts swapping reputation does not help either. 99% of us here are nobody-spectators. its the SILENT ONES , the " 1% " that know and arent saying anything that matter. congrats on 002c Mr G. , seems like you did indeed (quote) " Have an interesting week" (quote) best. Michael

 

Well...I call it "DNA"...but I think it should be pretty simple to compare steel tubes from one "make"...to another.

 

Actually Piper did speak. Jim quoted him in his documentation. Piper says the original 0846 frame was used by Ferrari Spa for another prototype.

 

Man, Staff P4,

If the guy who repaired crash damage by brazing in lieu of welding runs his hands over the same brazed instead of welded patch, years later, and says,

"Yes that's the repairs I made years ago on this car."

then if that doesn't do it for ya I'm afraid that no amount of scientific mumbo jumbo technical analysis of molecular structure similarities would move you any further towards belief. If you and Paul had CAREFULLY read ALL of Jim's posts together instead of constant

"what about......."

"what about......"

"what about....."

You'd have a better understanding. I have spent MANY years familiarizing myself with the history of Ferraris, and the fact of the matter is there WAS A LOT of hanky panky with the paperwork, and there was EVEN MORE hanky panky , with the parts and pieces!!!!!!

By Piper

By Penske and Donahue

By Enzo Ferrari

The FACTORY ITSELF TODAY cannot prove or disprove the provenence of some cars presented today, because they have in their hands the end result of all this fiasco, without the means to unravel it.

So you are left with the cars whose history, by TOTAL STROKE OF LUCK, is neat and complete from one end to the other. By coincidence these are MOST LIKELY the cars with limited or little actual race history.

And ALL THE REST, which as has been stated over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
in these threads whose components were used, raced, broken, thrown away and replaced, and broken again and replaced again and raced some more.
These cars are NEVER gonna have a matched set of serial numbered components like your Suzy Q's Honda Civic BECAUSE LIFE DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

IT DOESN'T NOW AND I DID NOT THEN.

So spectra analyze THAT, and sometime if you want to see real life you can tour some of the body shops in my old 'hood, which lived up to the name by
using two or three stolen 'donor' cars to chop up and repair the wreck lying in the middle of the floor, sending the rest to the crusher smelter the next day with some one's noisy mother in law wrapped in the trunk.

As you can tell, the one's left on this thread that don't get it........never will.

Ya'll having good weekend, I think the surf's coming up.......