What's the difference between Montoya and Schumacher?

It may be a typo. Hummm what could "afain" be??? Could it be "again"? Yes that would fit perfectly. And look the "f" is right next to the "g". Imagine that. And you couldn't reply to a post because another post had a spelling mistake? Hummm, that's odd. It does seem like you need help. Perhaps a freezer bag and a brick?

 

I should have known better than to read this thread, you guys get way too serious with each other.

Alan had a good post but left out the part about CL taking drugs and not being stripped of his medals., all retrospective of course and it was impossible to test for those drugs then but the point is don't present these other sportsmen as figures of virtue when the whole truth is not known.

Montoya has a lot to learn about life and driving as he is still in the Nascar mode of overtaking which is why MS avoided the issue when Juan came up from behind.

MS has also had some very bad moments (Hill and JV) which can not be dismissed as a blot on his attitude but I have had first had accounts of MS being an extremely agreeable person in situations where he could very rightly have told people to go away but graciously gave his time, at his birthday party thrown by Ferrari and family, to a freelance journalist for over half and hour...what do you think that would cost ?

 

Jim

Take a look at my original post. I think I was quite balanced in the information I provided and in the request for opinion. I don't see anything that "presents myself as such a.....expert." Do I feel JPM deserves more credit than some give him? Yes. Did I say he should be WDC? No. Is MS too political in comparison to JPM? Please let's hear your thoughts. Has MS had to do battle with his teammate this year? I am open to your thoughts on that as well.

I'm not going to make JPM a WDC; only he can do that. But there must be something desireable about his driving skill for Frank Williams to have held on to him and for Ron Dennis to have signed him. There are lots of cheap hotshots around but he chose to sign JPM. Next year should be more interesting than this one has been.

Andy[/QUOTE]




Andy,
Balanced?!?!?! About as balanced as a conservative Democrap! Ain't no such thing brother! (sorry to bring politics in on this - could not think of a better comparo...) You made the inference that MS had 7 titles and JPM has none - not me! You are also saying that MS just shows up and all this has fallen into his lap - by passing in the pits no less! All these snide little remarks about MS and how poor little JPM is not getting any credit. Balanced?!?!?!

To answer your questions - the coment on you being an expert was a take-off on you calling GTO a moron (Andy does not play well with others).

I, for one, have followed JPM's career intently. I was hoping to see him come to the US and walk the dog like Mansell did. However, the only success he had was gifted by the super car he was handed that ONE year. Then the real JPM started to emerge: Blaim the team, track, tires, engine, car, organizers, (you get the point), whenever HE screwed the pooch. I see the same things today and I think this attitude influences what he does on the track. Yes he is fast (sometimes, when the car is perfect), but he has always used foolish aggression to replace lack of ability. Credit? He deserves none.

MS political? Yes! Like I mentioned above and the point I was trying to make, it is not all about HIM! There are thousands of people HE represents. Like it or not, he is the unofficial/official spokesman for Ferrari - and he does it very well. The problem with JPM is that it has always been all about him - no matter what it is, and to hell with everyone else. Who is the mature one? Who would you want to work for? Who would you want to succeed?

I have seen RB take it to MS several times this year. I was at Indy when MS slammed the door on Rubens on an attempted pass. They came within a fraction of an inch of colliding - and yes, MS had the line. I just love all the RB conspiracy guys. With all the crap RB has endured, do you not think if he had the chance, he would dust Michael off into the weeds? Give me a break! I have always said, you have to catch him to pass him. He has never had a teammate that could match his speed. What makes you think JPM (har!), Kimi, Jenson, or any others could? Put RB with any of these other hot-snots and I'd bet he would hang right with them. MS did not acheive his success yesterday. Drivers have been trying to beat him for what, 12 years now? He has nothing to prove anymore. Either you have not been paying attention all your "fan longer than many on this board" years, or you are a charter member of JPM-all-about-me.com.

I think Sir Frankie is thrilled to be rid of him and the Ron Dennis love affair will come to an end about mid-season next year. Why mid-season? Because Kimi will have stuffed JPM for the first six races and we will have to endure the whinning about they like HIM better than me and I am getting substandard equipment and the car sucks and the tires suck and the team sucks....Deja vu all over again?

So, let's recap. MS winning it did not make it an interesting year. MS has had all his success magically appear for him - with no effort. MS can not tell the truth. JPM is living a horrid, picked on existance - ok, I'll give you that one! But he deserves every minute of it! Your comments balanced? Come on! In all seriousness, I would have to agree with GTO, and that is, "Read a book". MS has worked very hard at what he has become and there are plenty books that reference this - especially if you were not there to experience his rise to fame. He is a remarkable driver and I think it is a crime when people dog him for his greatness. Does he have his foibles? Sure! But he has always admitted fault and even taken blame for things he had nothing to do with to take pressure off the team. The man is bigger than Montoya could ever imagine being.

IMHO,
Jim

 

That is not his fault, it is the stupid rules. Anybody with a brain realises that a no risk pass is safer than a real pass. I hate the current refuelling rules because this no passing issue was always going to be the result. Again MS and Ferrari are just maximising the current stupid rules.

This comment is the most narrow minded load of absolute bullsh!t I have ever read. How short peoples memories are. MS's first WC for Ferrari was the fncken hardest WC win there has ever been. It did not take one season, it did not take 2, it took 5 whole years of really fncken hard work to pull a team that had long forgetten how to win back to being a winner. A team that produced laughable cars that could not even survive the warm up lap (at France) without blowing an engine.

Senna did not have to work with a fncked team like this ... he just moved to the dominant team after he had proved a point. Prost did the same, Hill and Hakenin. You find me a driver that pulled a whole team up over 5 years from being the biggest joke on the grid to a constant winner.

Stewart won in Tyrells, but he had a fantastic working relationship with Ken Tyrell and knew that they knew how to race. In those days building a race car was close to a piece of cake ... buy a Cosworth engine, throw on a Hewland gearbox and make a simple monocoque ...

Jim Clark won in the best car, Andretti.

The only driver to be compared with the effort required has to be Lauda. Lauda did the same and made Ferrari a winner ... and this actually gave Schecter his title (ie. on the wave of Lauda's efforts ... not Schecters).

Have you ever thought about the number of conferences he has to make ... have you ever had to answer the same question 1000 times from moron reporters?

**** I would be treating them with complete contempt. Even the girl during the telecast who goes up and asks the drivers when they have just cr@pped out of the GP ... er, How do you feel about it? ... gees give me a break, the guy is pissed right off and has to listen to this cr@p.

Regarding MS admitting his mistakes ... he has many times. He admitted it when he crashed out of the first lap at Monaco ('97 I think) ... he admitts it all the time to the team, and they visa versa ... that is how come they have what is called mutual (sp?) respect.

JPM on the other hand has yet to make a mistake ... it is everybody elses fault that he is not already 3 times WC.

Get your memory reloaded ... and yes many like you will be forgetting the great efforts of MS, because Ferrari like winning too much and will not allow him to be challenged. That is sad and Ferrari should be punished for ruining the reputation of the one that made them what they are today.

You do not understand Ferrari as a brand. The Ferrari logo and all the merchandise is a huge business now. The current boss of Ferrari, Luca is only interested in growing the brand name ... this was originally so they could float the company. Thus Ferrari winning F1 WC's has a lot more to do with the value of the brand than simply selling road cars (if I mentioned road cars in my earlier post, then I allowed my hands to type faster than my brain ). I hate what Luca is doing, Ferrari should race for racing sake ... as winning with no challenge is a hollow victory and Enzo would have ensured that MS had somebody to fight against.

Long term not allowing MS to battle is devaluing MS as a driver, and devaluing the wins by Ferrari ... because all the fools who do not understand the sport think it is really easy. They do not see the endless testing by 2 test teams (compared to everybody else's one) ... the miles and miles that MS does every week. They do not see MS win a race and then turn up at the test track the VERY next day for more testing and put in 1.5 times the length of a GP ...

Pete

 

when JPM has as many career wins as MS has this season i will gladly give the devil his due, until then he should shut the f**k up and listen to his betters. Rubens drive sun. was the best on the track, but nobody even bothers to mention it? Puleese! Rubens can drive circles around most of the other drivers, and usually does. I'd take him over JPM 11 times out of 10, and he actually understands that it's a team.

 

One, MS, uses his intelligence the other, JPM, doesn't.

 

I have said this on this site about atleast 5 times ... and yes I 100% agree with you on this point. Others don't. Passing in the pits is NOT real passing ... like a fake orgasim, lacks heaps!

In the end it is not MS's fault or Ferrari (or though I believe Ferrari could improve the situation but are more interested in hollow investment type victories) as they are just playing the rules.

Pete

 

Waah waah waah waah waah!

 

tuttebenne,

I see you are choosing to ignore my post (http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134390467&postcount=33) ... do we not have an answer or have you decided not to bother? (and yet we critise MS for not signing all autographs ... tich tich ).

There is no way you can justify your comment that MS WC wins have been easier than other drivers. Yes maybe the 2002 and 2004 titles, but that 2000 title was probably the hardest of all time!

Pete

 

Awe come on James, you know you want to say SOMETHING!!! We miss you! Come on, you can do it!!! Ok, how 'bout this....James, you are a moron! MS sucks! JPM sucks, they all suck! ;0)

Wow Pete, I've never seen you fired up this much!

Andy, I think we all agree that wheel-to-wheel racing is great and exciting. JPM prefers his front wheel to a competitors rear wheel and around we go - but that's another topic (maybe)! THe thing that tics me off is that the current "style" of racing is something that MS has absolutly no control over, yet he is constantly drug through the mud as being the cause of all that is wrong with F1. We had a great race this last weekend, right? Why was that? The accidents? The retirements? JPM's stupid move on JT? MS did not win the race? NO! NO! NO! and absolutely NO! It was the track! The strategy around the safety car! RB's climb back through the field! Heck even DC's climb back! Great passes (except for the previous mentioned stinker). What did MS have to do with these things? Or Ferrari? If you are going to blame him/them for all things bad, then you must give them props for all the good things, right? I've got your answers! NOTHING! NOTHING! and BULLSHOOT! It is plain to see that the current state (of boredom for some) has nothing to do with MS's or F's domination. It has everything to do with the dinnerplate flat, boring, sterile, (please put nasty descriptor here), venues. THEY SUCK! THere are only a few tracks left that offer anything to the real driver and they never cease to provide entertainment year after year. F1 only has themselves to blame for not having more influence on the designs of the new ones, and dumba$$ changes made to current layouts. MS was good before these things reared their ugly heads and he and F certainly have the brains to take advantage of what little is left. DO NOT blame him just because he is successfull.

Jim

 

Absolutely correct ... and Melbourne is a perfect example of a modern boring, sterile track that has never had, nor ever will have an exciting race. I have been to 2 races there (one because I just moved to Australia ... and the other to take my Father) and I will not likely go to another ... IT JUST SUCKS!!! completely.

Everything but the track is great though, people are great, etc. ... but I want to see racing.

Pete