Porsche guy going to F (part II) | FerrariChat

Porsche guy going to F (part II)

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Gatarz, Sep 15, 2004.

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  1. Gatarz

    Gatarz Rookie

    Sep 11, 2004
    35
    I see the huge thread where the Porsche (and M3) guy is asking advise regarding getting his first F car. I thought I might find answers to my similar question there, but his price range exceeded mine, and I also found myself doubting the authenticity of his intent (as several others mentioned as well.) So, if you will indulge me, here is my question:

    I own a 2001 C4 Cab. I am unhappy with Porsche NA, and had problems with this car (my previous Porsche, a 1992 Targa, was fine and I wish I had kept that and never bought the new Cab in '01....)

    I would like to buy an F car that has superior performance to my C4 Cab. It would be particluarly nice if I could sunburn the top of my head while driving it. My budget is up to $120k, perhaps a bit more, but I don't want to pretent I am in the $150k+ range - I'm not. I would like to be able to put 10k+ miles per year on the car without spending crazy money to keep it running, and I would like to drive it for two years and sell it without taking a beating on the value.

    So, does this F car exist, and if so, what is/are they? Please excuse my lack of Ferrari knowledge - I will learn. I promise.
     
  2. Ferrari0324

    Ferrari0324 F1 Rookie

    Mar 20, 2004
    3,510
    Full Name:
    Brandon
    360 Spider, And i'm not quite sure what the price range for an older 550 Barchetta is but that's another option. Or of course there is the lovely 355 Spider if you don't mind something a little older (Just as hot though).
     
  3. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
    Owner

    May 24, 2004
    9,334
    DC/LA/Paris/Haleiwa
    Full Name:
    Mr.
    I would suggest a 355 Spider with your choice of 6 speed or F1 transmission. You should be well below your price range w/money to use if you have any problems. Also, it will tan your head quite nicely..........
     
  4. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
    Owner

    May 24, 2004
    9,334
    DC/LA/Paris/Haleiwa
    Full Name:
    Mr.
    If you find a gd cond. 360 Spider below $120K let me know........
     
  5. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    34,344
    Full Name:
    Joe Mansion
    355 Spider with the 6 speed manual gb should be right for you.
     
  6. steveinct

    steveinct Rookie

    Mar 26, 2004
    25
    Connecticut, USA
    I'm a long time porsche fan....have had

    Boxster S
    911 coupe
    911 cab
    911 turbo with X50 (2003) (wow...what a car!)

    And currently have a 2004 C2 cab along with a new (to me) 1997 355 spider 6 speed.

    I LOVE the ferrari. It has a certain "soul" that the Porsche lacks...and the sound as you approach 8k RPM's...well, it gives me goose bumps. The Ferrari is the PERFECT weekend/nice weather/stress reliever.

    I will say, that getting the Ferrari has made me appreciate the Porsche more...though. With the Porsche, I get about 80% of the "experience" or soul of the Ferrari, and yet...I drive it EVERYDAY. They're bulletprood, reliable, and I can put however many miles I need to on it.

    The Porsche is like having a very attractive "good" girlfriend that you can bring home to mom...the Ferrari is like having a secret hot/intense affair with a gorgeous supermodel who's high maintenance! :) Both can be incredible satisfying...yet both are very different!

    The performance of the car (355) you can buy in your price range will not really be much faster than your C4...a bit, but not that noticeable. It feels faster because of the sound and you are a bit lower to the ground. I'm not so sure about that 10k miles a year. With the Porsche, you can have it as your only car...if something goes wrong, drop it off at the dealer, get a loaner, pick up the fixed car the next day...could be a bit more complicated with the Ferrari!

    Good luck!
    Steve

    Good luck!
     
  7. Robertb

    Robertb Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,331
    South Oxfordshire, U
    Full Name:
    Robert
    I'd suggest either a 355 GTS or Spider. The GTS has a removable 'targa' roof which I love.

    I've been surprised by how useable the 355 is, even with a Tubi sports exhaust. Refinement at high speed cruise is impressive, the air-con works well, and it is comfortable. The ride quality is especially remarkable.

    That said, don't expect a 355 to be usable like the Carrera- it will cost you a lot more to run, and will, I suspect, spend more time being repaired. And you won't feel right about just parking up and leaving it like you might do the 911.

    The Ferrari will thrill in a way that the Carrera will not. But then, a Carrera is a car of huge all-round ability.

    Robert.
     
  8. Smiles

    Smiles F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 20, 2003
    16,673
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Full Name:
    Matt F
    Just wait until you experience Ferrari NA! ;)
     
  9. Moogle

    Moogle Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2004
    523
    Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Man, some people, lets not resort to personal attacks, that was completely uncalled for.

    And to show that i'm a better person:

    I think the optimal car in your range,

    if you must have a convertible, it looks like the F355 Spider is the only car in that range that is fairly late model

    otherwise, you may be able to afford a 1999-2000 slightly higher mileage 360 modena.

    the 550 barachetta as some people mentioned is way out of your range, it is going for the high 200s.
     
  10. Buttuz4eva

    Buttuz4eva F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Dec 14, 2003
    2,717
    LONG ISLAND N.Y.
    Full Name:
    Challenge Farrelle
    that is true 355 spider all the way
     
  11. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,124
    USA
    Definitely get a 355 spider. They are beutiful and a ton of fun. You will find that many Ferraristi think the 355 also has the best engine note of any modern Ferrari.

    These were produced from 1995-1999. At the end of the model production they introduced the paddle F1 transmission with this car, though you can still find 6-speed 1999s. That said, there is nothing wrong with a 1995 - in fact, they had slightly more power than the later model year cars - so don't feel that you have to get one from the end of the 355 production cycle. Also of note are the 355 Fiorano spiders. 100 were made for the U.S., 4 for Europe. Of the U.S. models, 90 were F1 trans and 10 were 6 speed. They have a bunch of extra stuff as standard, including Fiorano handling pack, carbon fiber interior bits, rear challenge grille, etc.

    The 355 is well within your price range. An early spider, depending on mileage, can be down to $80K, and late models are between 100 and 110. Add about 10-15 for a Fiorano.

    Get one! Oh, and welcome.
     
  12. riverflyer

    riverflyer F1 Rookie

    Nov 26, 2003
    3,583
    Mendocino, Ca
    Full Name:
    John
    Gatarz, I think everyone has given you pretty much the same idea. I have a highly modded 3.4 conversion boxster. It is, hands down, the most fun car I have ever driven and will outcorner any street car I have known AND its topless AND I don't have to worry about mileage. All that said, even on nice days, when I go out to the garage to go for a spirited drive it is often the ferrari that gets the nod. It is not faster, does not handle with the same aplomb as the lighter boxster, but like Steve said, it just has more soul....
    and the sound is a full experience in and of itself.
    I have people I hardly know come up and tell me "Oh, I heard your car last night, wow i love that sound" or "were you out driving yesterday afternoon, I thought i heard your car"!!
    Amazing, even non car people recognize and appreciate the 355 sound as the pinnacle of automotive music.
    Good luck in your search. Don't hesitate to ask people on board about a particular car, chances are very good someone will have firsthand knowledge about it. John
     
  13. atheyg

    atheyg Guest

    I have had 2 previous 911s and now have a '77 930 which I bought after buying my 328 to use as more of a driver, since then I have added a 512Boxer also.

    The 930 is a metallic medium Green which is very noticable and the car gets alot of attention almost the same as a Ferrari but I have had numerous issues trying to park it and leave it alone, its been keyed after just having it repainted and right after it was fixed again someone stole the plates off it, then a little old lady hit my front fender so it's failed miserably as a driver type car and is as bad as a Ferrari when trying to leave it alone.

    That said, after having a Ferrari you really appreciate the Porsche more for a driver type of car, the Ferrari V8s parts and repairs are double, triple on a 12 cylinder, the Ferrari has the belts which are always on your mind vs the chains for the 930, the engines are strong and reliable in a Ferrari relatively but the bodys are very fragile and are not robust to typical daily wear and tear, panels are very soft on the Ferrari and you can dent them from slapping your hand too hard on them, not to mention the very fragile doors and hood vs the robust older 911 series.

    You could daily drive the Ferrari but it would get to be a big hassle and expensive if you want to keep the car nice. Porsche is is a real car a Ferrari is just a toy in reality.
     
  14. Gatarz

    Gatarz Rookie

    Sep 11, 2004
    35
    Atheyg, by your logic, I think I'm best off with a Ford F-350. It is so much of a real car, it's a TRUCK!

    Actually, I don't expect most any Ferrari to be a daily driver or to be inexpensive to keep up. True, the Porsche is much closer to bulletproof, and cheaper to fix, but i have a hard time with the notion that an old 930 draws attention like a 308, for example - nevermind a 360.

    I suppose if I want the highest performance, sunburnt head, and least repairs, I would just go through with my original idea of replacing the C4Cab with a Turbo Cab. But it's not a Ferrari now, is it?
     
  15. atheyg

    atheyg Guest


    Sounds like you already have some preconcieved notion of what a Ferrari is, I have both and am stating the reality of both not some dream and probably not what you want to hear, I didn't even get into a comparison of performance.

    Ferraris are not practical cars, the interiors wear quickly from getting in and out, the dashes shrink in the sun, the paint chips easily, they dent easily, they bottom out over small dips and take chunks out of your front spoiler, have electical failures in the rain and even on normal good days a bank may go out, catch fire, and so forth, like I said I am sure you could drive a Dino V8 series car daily but its going to be very expensive to keep nice or it will look ratty after awhile and have mechanical failures.

    For all their faults they are still my favorite car but like I said they are a toy.

    And yes my 930 does get almost as much attention as my 328, easily.
     
  16. Adrift

    Adrift Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2004
    749
    Dallas area
    You want max ZOWIE for the buck and drivability (between Porsche and Ferrari)...get the turbo cab, chip it, aftermarket exhaust, PSS9 suspension, X73 motor mounts, B&M shift kit...then suck the paint off pretty much any car you run into (including 99.999999% of Ferrari's), and drive it every day. There is a reason Evo (UK car mag) had the 911 Turbo as the #1 car in the world for months on end (for the life of that review actually, which wasn't that long).

    But I am not sure you could get a decent turbo cab for $120,000.

    But then you said "It ain't a Ferrari". That says a lot. So buy one. I toy with the idea from time to time...but I just can't get past the fact they require lots of frequent expensive maintenance and are relatively fragile.

    I take my Boxster or Turbo to the track, run the hell out of them, maybe change the oil and the brakes/fluid...and I am good to go. The ability to do that, and drive these same cars every day, hasn't convinced me yet that the ultimate exhaust note and the Ferrari cache are worth the extra $$$s. If I had money to burn and a barn full of cars, it would be a different story.

    Maybe some day.

    But then the Z06 guys think both the Porsche and the Ferrari guys are posing weenies for dropping so much cash on these cars, so...

    Also, Porsche NA has been great to me, at least with respect to warranty repairs.
     
  17. Gatarz

    Gatarz Rookie

    Sep 11, 2004
    35
    OK, let's review. I said I was considering spending upwards of $120k, so I'm not sure why atheyg has me in a ratty Dino V8!

    I was going to explain in detain that I am not naive regarding what a Ferrari is, but I think the following statement will give you some perspective on my car experience - I used to own Triumphs. Lucas, anyone?

    As for Adrift - I don't want to get into the details of my experience with Porsche NA, but let me qualify my distaste - it wasn't Porsche NA on whole that compromised my C4Cab experience, it was a combination of incompetence at the dealer service level, a bad decision on my part not to take a lateral swap when offered, and then mishandling by a regional Porsche guy. In the end, Porsche NA made amends (read $) so I am satisfied (sort of.)

    I have owned several Porsches, Alfas, Triumphs, Vettes, A twin Turbo 300Z, RX7's, a Lancia HPE Coupe (Ha! I'm in a small club there!), muscle cars, trucks, Ducati sport bikes, heavy equipment, rollerblades, etc. I know the difference between relatively high volume, production cars (like new Porsches) and, well...a Ferrari. Or for that matter, a new Maserati (things falling off in the showroom - hello?)

    Also, you don't have to worry about me getting stranded in my daily driver Ferrari - I won't (and it won't be) - I have other cars.

    Though I would like a $120k Ferrari purchase to outperform my 300 hp C4Cab (which is fairly heavy) I don't necessarily need the performance of a chipped Turbo Porsche with bigger turbos, exhaust, etc. There is ALWAYS someone quicker or faster. Big deal. Heck, there is a place in Vancouver that will take your $30k VW Golf and for another $30k get 600+ HP out of it and it will run 0-60 in a bit over 3 seconds and top 200 MPH (yes, I read Motor Trend sometimes.) Ugh. Not sexy.

    Ferrari. Sexy.

    End rant.
     
  18. Gatarz

    Gatarz Rookie

    Sep 11, 2004
    35
    Oh, I forgot to address your Turbo Cab price comment - I think they do sell for about $130k or so, but it is ultimately an easier purchase that a used $120k Ferrari is, as it is new (warranteed) and can be easily financed or even leased. I suspect the Turbo Cab is about the highest performance high end car you can buy for the most reasonable price. Now why do I think someone is going to try to sell me a "wicked fast" Subaru now???
     
  19. damcgee

    damcgee Formula 3

    Feb 23, 2003
    1,864
    Mobile, AL

    I'm glad to see you're a realist! What threw me off was the in your original post you stated you want to put 10k a year on the Ferrari with little maintence. That's not going to happen. At that rate you're getting a 30k service in 3 years, to the tune of $6k. That's $2k/year before you buy tires, brakes, or anything breaks!

    Now that you have made clear that you have other cars, I wholeheartedly agree a 355 spider would be a great car. It has 90-95% of the 360's performance, 120% of the porsche's soul, and probably 110% of your C4cab's performance. But it won't be cheap to put 10k/year on it.
     
  20. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
    Honorary

    Dec 5, 2001
    6,485
    Grandview NY
    Full Name:
    Herr Prof.
    I'll throw in a curve ball. Shop a Daytona (at the upper reaches of your budget, and spend every cent on the best car you can find: a price differential of, say 5k, upfront will get vaporized if you have to do anything major), or shop 512BBi (which is below your budget, but will leave you room to fettle and take a few nice trips to Europe and still have change in your pocket).
    Both cars are fabulous period pieces, will still deliver astounding levels of performance for their age, and if bought well, and maintained properly, should hold value. The 355 will continue to depreciate for a while, particularly if it has some heavy miles on it. (And, in Ferrariland, it seems that the market regards anything more than 2k miles per year as a car with "mileage"; not saying its right, but you will see more garage queens than you thought possible once you start shopping these cars).
    It would be an entirely different driving experience than a 355 spider (which is a terrific car) and will carry with it a bit more rawness that many (including me) think is missing from the more modern ferrari experience. What comes with the vintage experience is also virtually nonexistent air conditioning and compromised comfort, but for the pure buzz of driving, either of those cars is very hard to beat. Granted, you won't get the sun on your head, but there will be other trade-offs that make it worth exploring. Part of the enjoyment is the process of selecting and researching; there are many good books to read, and much valuable advice here, too.
     
  21. Gatarz

    Gatarz Rookie

    Sep 11, 2004
    35
    Everyone relates to different cars in different ways. I grew up with the 512BBi as the example of the ultimate car. I was a teenager then and was working in the car business. I spent lots of time around exotics, and occaisionally drove them. I lusted for the 512BBi.

    [I remember standing in the shop at an exotic dealer one day when I was about 18 staring at a 512. Next to it was a black Countach. The idiot that owned the Lambo had installed rectangular lamps (fogs, driving, who knows), ON THE ROOF. Yup. Sticking out of the top of the car. Nice, eh?]

    So, I wouldn't mind driving that 512BBi. Not at all. The Daytona pre-dates my car experiences, and while I have been around them, I don't have the lust for them that I have for a 512BBi. I have to admit, even though there are faster Ferraris, and possibly more attractive ones, that would be my ultimate Ferrari. Can I really get parts for one and keep it running? Anyone remember the performance specs?
     
  22. Gatarz

    Gatarz Rookie

    Sep 11, 2004
    35
    I just pulled this from the first page found: 512BBi - top speed of 188 mph, 0-60 in 5.5 seconds and 0-100 in just 13.2 seconds. 360 HP

    Seems that compares well with my Porsche. Similar acceleration, I guess. The Boxer probably sounds a lot better doing it. Hmmm...
     
  23. Gatarz

    Gatarz Rookie

    Sep 11, 2004
    35
  24. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
    Honorary

    Dec 5, 2001
    6,485
    Grandview NY
    Full Name:
    Herr Prof.
    There are a number out there. I haven't been taking the Ferrari Market Letter for the last couple months, but NNO or another subscriber here could probably tell you how many are on the market in the US right now. I bought mine (and sadly sold it, believe it or not, for a 550 Maranello which was a great, great car, but almost the exact opposite of the boxer) from a broker in Philadelphia who specializes in pristine cars for which you will pay; I don't want to dis Newport AutoSport, but i wonder if you will anyone here who will say great things about them, let's see....
    The boxer is very torquey, and because it runs on outdated rubber, you will find it more interesting to drive at relatively high speed than the more modern cars, which tend to be less challenging to drive. I'm glad i struck a soft spot for you. They are great cars, but definitely do your research and shopping before you buy, since buying one with needs will be no fun at all.
     
  25. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Gary B.
    Sounds a lot like my 360.

    Gary
     

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