Carrera GT values taking dump, owners bailing???

depends. it really is a matter of how the 'purported' inability to excercise the car on a day-to-day basis will be taken by would be buyers; sometimes too much information, is a bad thing. that said, another matter is the issue of perception. some of these would be owners, can't seem to make ends meet ; they find the notion of a 'race car for the street' to be an alluring prospect, yet refuse to live with the rough edges common to race car engineering - said in another way: they aren't real car guys. i've talked to owners who don't find the car to be too over-bearing, nor sketchy to drive; then again, these are people who've driven real race cars on the road, becuase the nuance of doing so, was worth the expense. it comes down to individual levels of comfort; if you're expecting the CGT to drive like a bentley, buy a bentley; this car has a high strung V10, a ceramic clutch, a carbon tub, etc. - do the math. it's not going to drive like your sunday sedan, and if you expect it to, then you're at fault, not the car's inherant design or purpose.

 

Your thread title seems a bit overly dramatic for the story that followed it. Is he the only one you know of with this complaint?

 

I was #2 @ dealer, but I passed @ MSRP. They are nice cars, but too many to sustain value, like SLR...CGT is better car than SLR, it is pretty and doesn't share most mechanicals with a car costing 2-300k less.

I was too high on US Enzo list to get one. MC12 is OK, but bodywork looks added on.

CGT will prob drop to mid-high 300's. Lots of play in sub200k market 360/430/Gallardo/Continental/DB9,etc, but 200+seems dead.

 

This all means that if the market values go down, REAL enthusiasts will be able to aquire the cars....whoever made the comment about posers was correct, many dentists that had a 911 thought this must be "even better" these are the same ppl who hated their gt3s after purchase...Saw my first in red today, I want one!

 

I'm assuming you're not a dentist? Don't lump us all into one category.......please.

 

It's funny, I was about to post the same question. I would like to have one. It's a great car but it scares me given the production numbers. Next year, I think FMV at low $300K to high $200K.

An 03 GT2 dropped $70K+ and it keeps dropping. Not a fair comparison perhaps, but we have come to expect high production, lower demand and thus significant depreciation from Porsche.

 

Totally agree. Consider this:

1500 CGT's
They're hoping to make something like 3000 SLRs
Enzo production just ending

Seriously, how many buyers are there for $400k+ cars? Especially when the resale value is very uncertain (unlike the Enzo).

With the Enzo (b/c of limited production), resale was assured. That means that when you dropped $650k for one, you weren't "SPENDING" the money, you were "investing" it. There is no way for you to lose money on an Enzo! That is not the same with these cars. I get the feeling you could buy an SLR or a CGT, keep it two years, and take a six figure bath on it (easily)

 

Im not really up to speed on this situation.
So you guys are saying that there are CGT's sitting vacant on lots, all because of a clutch and its practibility?
I love the look of the CGT, and i have seriously considered buying one to import here into Australia. I thought that it would have been an investment, but i have decided to go along and buy a rental property instead. The fact that they are only made in LHD was a big downpoint for me. And to their value in Australia. With some of your views on here, looks like ive made the right decision.
I know that a few have trickled into the country....

 

Hmmm, an on/off clutch is a turn off to these people? I assume then that they don't wish to own manual F-cars either?

At any rate, perhaps i need to add another two spaces to my garage; one for the Gallardo and one for the CGT. Gimme a call when they're 40 cents on the dollar

 

From what i have heard the clutch in the road-going version of the GT-1, is so much more "on-off" than a CGT! Fair enough the amount of CGT's is substantially more than the GT1's, but i bet the owners of those cars expected that!
I wish i still had my 22B. If ever you wanted a stiff clutch in a car, you would have found it in my car! Triple plate anyone with AWD anyone?
I couldnt get away from the lights cleanly without spinning or stalling! I preffered spinning! It got tiresome and expensive after 3 driveshafts.......

 

I thought some of you might be interested in the final disposition of my Carrera GT. Earlier posts certainly outlined the issues I had with the car after driving it 4,000 miles. I left the car at Sonnen Motors in Mill Valley three weeks ago for sale. We agreed to make the car available at $435K. The car was sold for $431K, to a local person who was already on the list with Sonnen for a CGT, though production of his car would not take place for 18 months. I think I received a very fair price considering the mileage. It was the most difficult and emotional decision I have ever made around an automobile. I so enjoyed the car in so many ways and yet, for the way I like to use a car, it just did not meet my needs or expectations. While signing the consignment agreement, I realized I had been a Porsche enthusiast and owner for decades and this would be the first time I did not have a Porsche in my garage. Fortunately, there was a seal grey/black 997 Carrera S on display, which I acquired and drove away two hours later. And yes, the car is a six speed. It is so great to drive. If Porsche modifies the clutch/transmission on the CGT, I will certainly want to again have a CGT in my garage. If not, a 997 Turbo will be the next Porsche in my life.

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so you took a 10-20k hit?

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Don't I wish!!!!! MSRP (inc. air shipment)was $460K, California Sales Tax was $33K, plus license and gas guzzler tax of about 5K, for $500K more or less purchase price. Sale at $431K less sales expense. So about $80K +/-!!! I thought the CGT was a car I would keep for a long time, otherwise I would have leased the car and that would have reduced the sales tax hit substantially. What did I learn from this rather expensive journey? In the future, do not buy a totally new design vehicle, such as a CGT, or Enzo, or Bugatti Veyron, without first driving it. If I had been able to drive the CGT when in Leipzig, I do not think I would have taken delivery of the car. Based on my earlier Porsche experiences, I couldn't imagine the car being anything but a very driveable automobile.

 

Just an observation, but I'd be more than willing you could have worked with someone to fabricate a clutch package that would make the tranny behave just the way you wanted for somewhere under $20K. I'm sorry the car didn't work out for you

 

It wasn't my car, I just posted part of a thread from Rennteam.

I don't think a clutch change is remotely possible, given the unusual size and design of the CGT clutch. Porsche went with the ultra-small diameter carbon clutch to allow very low placement of the whole engine and drive train, so it would not be a trivial task to re-design the clutch.

Gary

 

ahh ha. i get it now... people buy a 600 hp supercar, which just so happens to be an engineering marvel, and they expect it to be as pedestrian as an off the showroom floor carrera.
unbelievable.
maybe instead of reading the brochure, and memorizing all the "cool" features that the car offers, people buying the car should take a few hours to understand the operational implications of driving a car with a clutch the diameter of my wrist watch and no flywheel.

 

Offhand, I can't think of another supercar that poses the kind of very real problems that the Carrera GT does. I know several drivers who had orders in on the CGT and backed out of them when they got a chance to drive the car, and several others who have sold their CGT not too long after they bought it. These are all huge enthusiast types who regularly drive at track events and are very polished in their skills. This is not a trivial matter. If the car is a huge pain in the patoot to drive in normal traffic situations, let's face it, you'll find something else. I've never heard of complaints from Enzo, F40, F50, McLaren F1, etc, owners, so I think this is a big problem for Porsche and the CGT.

Gary

 

80k hit for 4k miles! Wow, I will never complain again about losing a few grand on some of my less than thought out car purchases!

 

Gary, glad it wasn't you who took the beating.

On the other hand, I think the clutch job is quite feasible (though not trivial, so I stated under $20K instead of under $10K). If somebody spotted me the money, I bet I could get it designed, fabricated, and delivered in 4 months or less. Don't have the exact clutch specs in front of me, but an approx 7" dual disk package looks to fit the bill.

 

I think this is really unfortunate for those who expected more.

And Hubert, maybe you should give these people some credit. Supercars today ARE required to be driveable in all sorts of situations (including traffic). It wasn't too much of an engineering issue for Ferrari, Mercedes/McLaren, McLaren F1. All these cars offer comparable performance while maintaining functionality.

 

I'm impressed. Maybe you should think about going to market with this concept, no doubt you'd have some takers.

Gary

 

The mclaren f1 is *possibly* the only supercar that could be used with the ease of a run of the mill sports car, and that's becuase it was penned with that in mind, and demands two to three times the money of an Enzo or CGT.

All others are going to take forethought in route and consideration; the enzo scrapes, bottoms out and has sat overheated in NYC ruse hour; a 288 gto, f40 and f50 will all be cumbersome and awkward to tool around due to their width and low ride height (not to mention the acceleration/speed discrepancies between these cars and everything else on the road); and, the CGT (apparently) has a clutch that takes rudely to casual inputs.

My contention is this: you cannot have a car that does everything well; however, the thorn in my side, is simple : owners/buyers/ grief stricken CGT enthusiasts were presented and given all the facts up front : the car has a carbon fiber tub; it has a carbon clutch with no flywheel; it is very low; it is wide; and, no, it probably won't take well to stop & go traffic (but neither will any other manual gearbox car - stiff clutch or not, it gets tedious). Should you be able to run down to the store to pick something up w/ the CGT? Of course. Should you be able to cruise through the mountains and freeway in the summer without it overheating? Of course. Should you consider your route and time of travel when driving in a land bound missle? I think so.

If you want commuter ease, buy a benzo.

If you want to drive today's pinnacle of engineering development, uncover the CGT.

It's not an impossible quandry, really, it's not. Special cars , require owners concious of their temperment; Mr. G. drives his race cars on the road, but i have yet to hear him opine about the lack of "creature comforts," an easy clutch or the deafining whine of the straight cut dog toothed gearbox - you take these things a priori and live with them - it's part of owning something special; you can drive an appliance, or you can drive something special.

 

I second that. I try and work my "day job" schedule around the rush hours. My commute(s) are then something to look forward to. It's almost become a quality of life issue

 

Firstly nothing is sure when you drop this kind of money on a object.

Stocks, property, everything can depriciate, so dont be so sure about the enzo.

People were originally saying you would never be able to pick one up, no matter what you were prepared to pay. They were only going to ferrari's best customers. Suprise, suprise, they are now on offer. And no matter what the asking price is, none of us really know what they will be offloaded at......

As for the SLR and Enzo not having similar complaints. Well how many times have we seen people drone on about wanting stick shift on this site????????? Do these two cars have stick shifts???? nope. Would they have similar problems if they did????? Quite probably.

Leaving out the clutch, is the CGT any harder to drive then the other 2 in traffic???? I doubt it. They all look like they would ground out, be difficult to judge the size and provide compromised views of anything but straight ahead.