330 P4 technical data needed | FerrariChat
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330 P4 technical data needed

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by C'one, Sep 30, 2004.

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  1. C'one

    C'one Karting

    Sep 27, 2004
    194
    France
    #1 C'one, Sep 30, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi all

    Second post :)

    I've been reading this board rather intensly and enjoying it very much since I
    discovered it last week. :),for the last eight months I've been putting
    together a 330 p4 series addition to the N2003 racing simulator
    ..now here's the rub ,we've been trying to put together an as accurate physics package as possible(idealy around 67)
    but just can't find enough info..so where better to ask ? ;-)

    What we need is as much as you can give us really, we have dry weight, horsepower etc but what we're lacking is things like...
    :drag coeficants
    :torque/power band
    :downforce
    :fuel load
    and anything else you can muster :)

    All the best.............C

    Disclaimer:this is a work in progress ;-)

    all information gratefuly recieved and apologies for hijacking the thread..
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  2. P 4 Staff

    P 4 Staff Rookie

    Feb 10, 2004
    1
    #2 P 4 Staff, Sep 30, 2004
    Hi.
    Very interesting...and I think your model look great.
    I can provide you with some data I´ve found.

    Wheelbase: 2400mm.
    Front track: 1488mm.
    Rear track: 1450mm.

    Tire size...Front: 4.75-10.30 x 15"
    Rear: 6.00-12.30 x 15"

    Overall length: 4185mm
    width: 1810mm
    height: 1000mm

    Engine: 60 degree V-12
    : 3967cc
    : 450 BHP at 8000 rpm

    I will search for the other data you asked for.
    Best: Staffan.
     
  3. macca

    macca Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2003
    694
    #3 macca, Oct 1, 2004
    I haven't seen a drag coefficient figure for the P4, but if you can work backwards:-

    P4: 450 hp, max 195 mph
    Ford Mk IV: 525 hp, max 225 mph

    Basically the P4 was not an efficient shape by 1967 standards. As for downforce: none! If you look at a picture of one of the cars on the Mulsanne straight in 1967, it's 'up on tiptoes', because it's actually generating lift.

    Hope that helps.


    Paul M
     
  4. C'one

    C'one Karting

    Sep 27, 2004
    194
    France
    #4 C'one, Oct 1, 2004
    Thank you Staffan. :)

    All the info you have posted so far has already been implimented :) ..
    so for the moment the car is handling like a dream,
    but we're just not getting the top speed.
    The best I've been able to do is 187mph on the old mulsanne straight/Masta and
    192mph at Daytona .
    We have'nt touched the drag or downforce yet and refuse to guess,
    so it's as if there's a big invisible(TA series) Corvette or Jag shell in the way..
     
  5. C'one

    C'one Karting

    Sep 27, 2004
    194
    France
    #5 C'one, Oct 1, 2004
    Hi macca :)

    IIRC the P4 managed 210mph at it's first public trials at Daytona two weeks after release,
    though I'd really like to nail these details as the mists of time has obscured things a little. ;)
     
  6. P 4 Staff

    P 4 Staff Rookie

    Feb 10, 2004
    1
    #6 P 4 Staff, Oct 1, 2004
    Hi C`one.
    I´ve been reading a little in the book "Ferrari P3/412 P" by Huet/Carrieri and found some data.
    You asked about fuel-capacity.
    330 P4: #0856 #0858 and #0860 had 140 litre tanks...and weight 792 Kilograms without fuel.

    412P: #0850 and #0854 had 151 litre tanks...and weiht 833 Kilograms without fuel.
    Best: Staffan.
     
  7. C'one

    C'one Karting

    Sep 27, 2004
    194
    France
    #7 C'one, Oct 1, 2004
    Thanks P 4 Staff ;)
     
  8. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    #8 Napolis, Oct 1, 2004
    Hi
    As with many things I believe my friend Macca is correct.
    At Le Mans 1967 the P4's went 199, The MK-IV's 223, and the T 70 Aston/ Lola's 205.
    My MK-IV ran a 2:50 rear and was limited to 6250 rpms.
    At speed it was very much up on it's toes. Gurney told me he had to back off gently and wait about 10 seconds for the front wheel to land before he could start braking.
    Watching the P4's they seem very "up on their toes" as well.
    If you need any specific photo's let me know.
     
  9. C'one

    C'one Karting

    Sep 27, 2004
    194
    France
    #9 C'one, Oct 1, 2004
    Hi Napolis :)

    Ok we'll use Le Mans as the benchmark ;),which is good because we're not TOO far off there :D ,I have indeed noticed the P4's on it's toes stance but
    put that down to accelaration/suspension.

    @ Macca ,no disrespect intended I'm just determined to be as thorough as possible.:)

    So lets see:p4 specs so far
    We have fuel load=140ltrs
    Downforce=zero or more precisley a certain amount of lift(possible more at the front?)
    Top speed at Le mans =195-199mph
    a drag coefficient figure for the P4 is looking unlikely
    so all that leaves is Torque/power band.

    As for specific photos the interior,especially the dash and dials would be very usefull.

    Thank you to everyone for being so helpfull.

    All the best.............C
     
  10. P 4 Staff

    P 4 Staff Rookie

    Feb 10, 2004
    1
    #10 P 4 Staff, Oct 2, 2004
  11. C'one

    C'one Karting

    Sep 27, 2004
    194
    France
    #11 C'one, Oct 2, 2004
    Hi Staffan

    Torque is like engine inertia v car inertia,deisels have it by the bucket load and big american V8's come to think of it...this is a great asset for pulling things,hill climbs and accelaration.

    I would imagine this would make an especially big differance at the old Nurburgring etc

    If I find out what 1kw is to 1hp your link could be very usefull indeed :)

    "torque" depends on many things...temperature...humidity and so on...N2003 actualy takes this into acount and varies performance accordingly.

    Just to expand on this a little further, deisels have a lot of low down torque,
    which means you dont have to rev the engine as much..which is good because they generaly dont like it.

    Now,I've been listening to a P4 recording that a very kind board member ;)
    sent me and the Ferrari sounds like it's got it all "as in" though there is that classic unmistakable wail and sharp responsive blips , you can also hear that low snarly grunt too(can you tell I've been spending a lot of time trying capture/reproduce that sound ? :D :D )



    A big thanks!!
     
  12. P 4 Staff

    P 4 Staff Rookie

    Feb 10, 2004
    1
    #12 P 4 Staff, Oct 2, 2004
    C`one.
    1 hp = 0,746 kw
    Best: Staffan.
     
  13. C'one

    C'one Karting

    Sep 27, 2004
    194
    France
    #13 C'one, Oct 3, 2004
    Thank's Staffan
    very good of you :)
     
  14. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
    7,289
    Etceterini Land
    Full Name:
    Dr.Stuart Schaller
    #14 dretceterini, Oct 3, 2004
    Briefly, torque is simply twisting force, and the more you have, the better the acceleration. With horsepower, the more you have, the higher the potential top speed (of course gear ratio multiplication effects output of both)

    Part of the reason that the Ford GTs beat the Ferraris is that the Ford put out more torque than the Ferrari, but I don't have exact figures.

    As a gross generalization, the bigger the displacement, the more torque a motor has, and the smaller the individual cylinder size, the higher a motor can rev, therefore producing more horsepower at the top end of the RPM range

    Hope this isn't too confusing...

    Stu
     
  15. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    49,407
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    #15 tifosi12, Oct 3, 2004
    Torque is momentum created by the mass of the moving parts in a vehicle, mainly engine and transmission. So the bigger your engine, the more momentum, torque and forward movement you get.
     
  16. C'one

    C'one Karting

    Sep 27, 2004
    194
    France
    #16 C'one, Oct 3, 2004
    Yes ,so it's the engines momentum versus the cars inertia :)
     
  17. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
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    Full Name:
    Andreas
    #17 tifosi12, Oct 3, 2004
    C'one, I downloaded all the patches and add-ons and bought the Nascar game on ebay. So I'm anxiously awaiting its arrival to add this to my sim collection.

    Since the underlying game is Nascar, I assume I have to find and download the traditional road courses some place else?
     
  18. C'one

    C'one Karting

    Sep 27, 2004
    194
    France
    #18 C'one, Oct 4, 2004
    Yes right again.
    You can get some of the 1967 tracks here http://www.theuspits.com/sims/index.html such as,Kyalami,StJovite,Mosport,Silverstone...you will see on this page there's allso
    "Dave Noonan's" converted tracks which are GPL(Grand Prix Legends) converts this is all one package now so I'm not sure whats there but there's definetly LeMan B'Sarthe67 and possibly Spa.
    Dave Noonan allso sells a track converter for $20(will get you the link)but to get the most out of this you need to have GPL with all the best/latest updates and there's a lot :O such as all 14miles of the old Nurburgring and there's fabulous updates readily available....
    Now that there's an actual 67 car to race these ;) I know of at least three good track makers talking of making more 67 tracks including 43miles of the Targa Floria! :O
     
  19. C'one

    C'one Karting

    Sep 27, 2004
    194
    France
    #19 C'one, Oct 5, 2004
  20. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    49,407
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    Full Name:
    Andreas
    #20 tifosi12, Oct 5, 2004
    Ah, Bern Bremgarten, here I come!

    BTW: I find it funny looking at those pictures. I think those are more P4 than Ferrari ever built. So your race in real life would have to include Piper's cars <oh yikes, what did I just say?> and even some current replicas <even more yikes!>. Hehe.
     
  21. teak360

    teak360 F1 World Champ

    Nov 3, 2003
    10,065
    Boulder, CO
    Full Name:
    Scott
    #21 teak360, Oct 5, 2004
    And the Easter Bunny lives with Santa Claus during their off-seasons.
     
  22. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,615
    Dallas, TX, USA
    #22 Brian C. Stradale, Oct 5, 2004
    Yikes! Before this interesting thread degenerates into a torque vs. HP thread, let me request to ALL that we NOT go there!! PLEASE!!

    For the purposes of an accurate simulation, you do NOT want either the torque number or the HP number... rather, you want EITHER the torque curve OR the HP curve... and with either one of those CURVES, you can mathematically compute the other CURVE. And if you know the temp, humidity, air pressure, etc., that the curve(s) were measured at, then you can adjust the curves fairly accurately for other environmental conditions.
     
  23. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    49,407
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    Andreas
    #23 tifosi12, Oct 5, 2004
    Hmm, I can't speak for Nascar 2003, but I can say, that in other sims like e.g. Grand Prix your parameters are somewhat restricted: You can enter vehicle weight, hp and drag, but you couldn't really enter a torque or hp curve. The gear ratios could be individually altered for any track by the player regardless, so that would somewhat define your curve.
     
  24. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,615
    Dallas, TX, USA
    #24 Brian C. Stradale, Oct 5, 2004
    True; but some simulators do allow you to enter a full curve. For example, the CarSim simulator does allow you to enter a full curve... and its pretty inexpensive.

    OR, if you only have the Max HP number and the Max Torque number (at corresponding RPMs), as is often the case, then CarSim will use just those two points on the curve to interpolate the full curve(s).

    Without at least those two points... if you're just entering max HP... then its largely just guessing and will be a pretty poor simulation of overall performance... unless it just happens to get lucky.
     
  25. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #25 PSk, Oct 5, 2004
    ;) :D :D ... actually yesterday 'cause I was bored I thought about starting one ... just for fun :p :rolleyes:

    But I won't ... 'cause my head hurts when I bang a wall ;)
    Pete
     
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