CS vs Gallardo drive: my impressions | FerrariChat

CS vs Gallardo drive: my impressions

Discussion in '360/430' started by stradman, Oct 17, 2004.

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  1. stradman

    stradman Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
    1,284
    London UK
    Full Name:
    Stradman
    Well I've just completed about 350 miles over the w/e with an e-gear 9500 mile Gallardo. As some may know I have owned a CS for the last 4 months and have done just under 2000 miles in it. This was my first drive of the Gallardo. My impressions are:
    1. It is definetly faster than my CS. It is very easy to be seduced by it's torque/power. wads of torque there for the taking.It's what I would call "power at any revs any time". I have always felt the CS has been slightly "thin" in terms of power delivery. I am hoping the 430 will correct this.
    2. The styling is a matter of taste. I personally like the exterior overall cab forward styling. the interior is another matter however. i just don't like it. No disrespect to our american friends out there but it just looks more like a pontiac interior than an italian exotic to my eyes. I certainly can see the german influence/audi switchgear, which makes the whole picture even less cohesive to me. But I will stop there because this too is a subjective issue. What isn't subjective is the driving position. i had difficulty finding the right position with the seat despite steering wheel and seat adjustments. Seats certainly not as supportive as my CS. the footwell was another problem. It is just so tight. The pedals are also set too high which makes it very uncomfortable. I wear size 8 shoes and just had no room to put my left foot. As such I was constantly left foot braking routinely just to keep my foot from falling asleep(not too mention my left thigh which was also going numb) I have never had any such problems with either 355/360 or CS. The front roofline as it meets the windscreen goes far too forward for my liking giving a somewhat claustrophobic(perhaps some would say cosy!) feeling inside the car. But I suppose this is a Lambo trait, again very subjective.
    3. the engine sound is superior, to my ears, to my CS- at idle and up to about 4500 rpms. After that the CS sound blows the L-car's sound away. Great starter noise also in the lambo.A fast stir followed by nice bellow from the engine.
    4. the e-gear version that i tried( car was a 2003 model) although it too is also made by Magneti marelli( the same people who do the CS one) is simply not as good as the CS version. I am big fan of the CS F1 system. The shifts in the lambo are jerkier and the engagment of gears not as quick. There were also one or two e-gear warning lights that went off 3-4 times(I have been subsequently told by the people who own it that they have been having some difficulty with the e-gear clutch, although they didn't elaborate- BTW the manual clutch car that they also have has had loads of problems.) The ratios of the lambo gears IMO are jsut too long for a sporting car. I think the first two gears should have been slightly shorter to add to the racing/quick revving spirit of sports cars. Perhaps SV version will address this.
    5. the steering I have to say just simply feels too stiff and wooden in the Gallardo compared to the CS. It does get better as the speed increases but just not as communicative,incisive or telepathic if you like as the CS. Even compared to the standard 360 it still feels too numb. I know it is AWD which I am sure blunts this feeling, but in some ways it is a shame, because driving the Gallardo otherwise, it simply goes where you steer it. It has very high levels of grip and as it has been quite rainy over the weekend, it has also proven to be extremely sure footed.It does things in this environment that the CS simply just would not be able to do. It shows slight understeer in tight fast corners, but the back is very difficult to throw out. I find the CS much more accurate however, staying true to the racing line. Abrupt transitions of the steering wheel are handles much more competenly in the CS than the Gcar. The ride, funny enough, I found was actually slightly harsher than the CS(as my wife will testify to!). the brakes are simply are not in the same league as the CS also. Although I didn't measure this I am sure the stopping distances are longer with the Gallardo and brakes just feel spongy. However I was not able to detect any fade in them.

    Prior to driving the Gallardo I had read various track times for the Gallardo and the CS at different tracks, and couldn't really make up my mind as to which would be faster. The truth, now that I've driven both extensively, I feel is that it just depends on the track. In tracks with lots of multiple tight corners, esses, and quick transitional changes the CS would simply walk away. However in tracks with long straights and sweeping bends the power of the Gallardo would make it quicker. Because although the Gallardo is not quite as focused as the CS it is a decent all round package.

    I warmed to the Gallardo after my w/e drive despite my initial reservations-mainly not as sharp a steer as I like. Would I trade my CS for it?Great car though the lambo is, the answer would have to be no. I have to be frank and say that I just could not live with the driving position alone. In addition to the problematic footwell the seats gave me back ache. I appreciate however the lambo's fantastic engine.. if Lambo improve one or two things then maybe I could be tempted. Then again the 430 is just around the corner, and so maybe I will be swayed back.

    One last thing I will say however, having driven the Murcie three times in the past(and done about 500 miles in), I cannot see the point of it. The Gallardo IMO is the better car. More compact, better handling, and as fast as damn it to the Murcie.. If you must however be seen in a car with scissor doors then buy the Murcie otherwise the Gallardo is the better package.

    Alex
     
  2. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,124
    USA
    Interesting review. So, in sum: Gallardo has noticeably more power but the overall package isn't as good.
    Power is kind of pointless when you don't have fun using it...

    I'm suprised you didn't find the Murci significantly better.
     
  3. F430-Monza

    F430-Monza Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Sep 26, 2004
    295
    When the real test comes...with the F430 against the Gallardo...then we'll see the who's ass get's whacked !
     
  4. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    6,099
    MA USA
    Full Name:
    Mr. Doody
    very interesting comparison alex - thank you.

    doody.
     
  5. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Thanks. Very interesting. I have always felt that a long drive is necessary to determine if any car is for you. Comfort, or lack thereof, is something you have to live with long after the thrill of OMG! is gone. What's strange to me is it's almost as if some designers have never used an exotic car for any length of time. I would never own a car without a comfortable footbox and dead pedal. At 3am in the rain at speed is where you really learn if a car is a keeper.
     
  6. 5to1

    5to1 Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2004
    523
    Stradman, my comments come from the opposite view point. I recently bought a Gallardo. But test drove the 360CS before buying.

    I have to admit it was a tough decision.

    I wanted to use the car everyday and this thru it in favour of the Gcar.

    I liked the on edge feel of the CS but didn't feel I could live with it on a daily basis. While the Gcar can happily trundle along until you unleash the power. Give it some stick and it really comes alive. And the squarish dimensions + AWD make it feel almost go kart like at this point. (I'm still in the run in zone so haven't taken it to the limit yet).

    I had a 400 mile drive home when i bought the car, and both me and the girlfriend had back ache by the end. But since that first day the seats have been fine, guess my back has got used to em. I'm 6'1 and didnt have a problem with seating position on either car.

    I have to admit although I like the exterior of both the CS and Gallardo (prefer front perspectives of Gcar and rear of CS), I much prefer the interior of the Gcar. It feels better put together. Mayb its my subconcious noting the german connection. I also like the layed back seating position feel acentuated by the raking front.

    And given the choice I would rather have the Audi sourced Sat Nav and dual zone aircon then what ferrari offers.

    As a closing note I really think Lambo could have presented the engine better, some colour, more chrome, less plastic. The CS bay/engine looks much better.

    And I have to agree with you about the gear ratios. I think perhaps Lambo also did this to protect the Murci figures.

    As for the peddle positions, I drive a RHD car as I'm in the UK. The manual Gcar was impossible, with the clutch way to the left. Your left leg actually hit the centre console when on the clutch. This is one of the reasons I chose the e-gear.
     
  7. stradman

    stradman Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
    1,284
    London UK
    Full Name:
    Stradman
    The car I have been driving is RHD as I'm based in London, so I would agree with you that the manual car would have been undriveable, due to impossible foot space. I would tend to also agree with you that for an everyday car the Lambo is probably slightly better(mainly better all weather control) however I have to say that I tended to bottom out (on speed humps etc.) much more often in the Gcar than my CS, so that would count against it as a daily runner. If you ask me, I would say that neither is good for a daily car and as such I drive a 500CL for that-much, much more comfortable! For me the CS(or which ever car I own as a second car) is mainly for having fun in and for that I derive more pleasure in steering a CS than a Gcar. But as I said both have pluses and minuses. My ideal? a Cs with 500 bhp-maybe the 430CS when it comes.
    Alex
     
  8. rico

    rico Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    580
    Bournemouth
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    Have Lambo f*cked up the RHD version then?

    I had a play in a LHD car and found the foot positions fine... and i wear a size 12 shoe!

    hhmm...
     
  9. watt

    watt Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    2,223
    Northern Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Giuseppe T Hemingway
    alex et al.,

    this is very helpful info. i have been thinking about murci's and G's as the prices are continuing to crash. i have also gleaned that the new [04] G's have re-done egear which is much improved.
     
  10. tritone

    tritone F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 8, 2003
    7,193
    On the Rock
    Full Name:
    James
    stradman and 5to1 -

    thanks very much for your reasonable and objective reports of your experiences! These are the kind of posts that make FChat really valuable. And as always, it goes to show that "there's a butt for every seat".

    james
     
  11. tubeguy

    tubeguy Formula 3

    May 21, 2003
    1,041
    Upland California
    Full Name:
    Kevin Deal
    I love 'em both...would consider a gallardo 2wd. Just got my CS Friday nite. It is a joy. The transmission shifts perfect.

    I am lost on why Gallardo seats cause backache. I got that too during my test drive. But you would not guess it by looking at them. And there is a cabin resonance at some mid-band RPM that bugged me. Outside of that the interior is great. But I bought the CS. The race car image and driving experience is fantastic
     
  12. riverflyer

    riverflyer F1 Rookie

    Nov 26, 2003
    3,583
    Mendocino, Ca
    Full Name:
    John
    Great thread, very helpful writeups and responses, and especially enjoyed the "neutral" observations. Sometimes the rabid fcar support that blinds other brands merits, well you know.....
     
  13. 5to1

    5to1 Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2004
    523
    RHD manual YES. E-gear is ok, but not perfect. Still slightly offset, although I got used to it already. Just feels wierd when I hop between cars.

    Stradman, I know either car is not perfect as daily drivers. But if you want a car of this type as a daily driver, I found the Gcar was the best IMHO (911TT just is offers no exclusivity here in London).

    I've bottomed out once so far (only ever so slightly, split second). But when I picked mine up the dealer had one on a ramp, and theres a protective metal plate which runs along the bottom. So unless you catch nose it doesn't really matter.

    Still not nice to hear :( hope I dont do it again. They now offer the Murci lift mechanism as an option. But that has its problems with shock leaks, etc.

    The e-gear on mine has been fine. Not as fast shifts as the CS, but I haven't used it in sport mode since they told me not to untill run in procedure was over.
     
  14. scycle2020

    scycle2020 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2004
    3,477
    potomac
    great point, but most teat drives are very short, and many of the true characteristics of the car dont come out...the performance of the new sports cars is so amazing that they all are very fast....should comfort be the deciding factor on which car we like best? of the course the purists would totally dissagree....
     
  15. Dr JonboyG

    Dr JonboyG Karting

    Jul 26, 2004
    227
    Washington, DC
    Full Name:
    Jonathan Gitlin
    Great review Alex. Are there still places in London you can enjoy cars like the CS? I imagine a late night dash across town could be quite fun...
     
  16. speedracer5

    speedracer5 Karting

    Oct 15, 2004
    87
    Northeast, USA
    Thank you for the great review. I am a 360 owner and out of my love of sports cars I went to look at the Gallardo and test drive it. I have to admit I have not driven it much. Style wise it looks better in person than in photos. My opinion. I only drove the manual. My experience is very close to your's. At the end of it I decided to keep my 360. I feel Lambo has succeeded in building a good car. As the first version under Audi I would say great job. I look forward to what further development Audi will achieve with the G-car. I like this site and look forward to reading more posts like this. Thank you again
     
  17. stradman

    stradman Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
    1,284
    London UK
    Full Name:
    Stradman
    thanks. A late night dash across town is exactly what I do, after all the traffic has dissipated!
    Alex
     
  18. stradman

    stradman Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
    1,284
    London UK
    Full Name:
    Stradman
    I would agree they have done a good job overall. however some things like the narrow footwell(in RHD at least) is just a plain design fault. On the manual car you have no option but to rest your foot on the clutch. This is the main reason, I have been told by people more knowledgable than myself, that clutches are going at 4-5000 miles. Totally unacceptable. Maybe when Audi decides to use the new DSG system(which is excellent BTW) there will be less manual demand.

    Having said all that, and back to driving my CS over the last two days again, I am definetly certain that I made the right choice.
    OK, perhaps ultimately I don't have as much grunt as the Gallardo, but, (and I'm trying to stay objective here!) the pleasure derived from the CS steering, handling,brakes(not to mention the seats/driving position) is just magic! Having driven extensively ALL major supercars(barring Enzo,carrera GT and SLR)I am now truly happy because I always had a nagging doubt in my mind(at least until the 430 CS comes out!).

    Alex
     
  19. Willis360

    Willis360 F1 Rookie

    Aug 4, 2001
    3,928
    Redmond, WA
    Full Name:
    Willis H
    The tight footwell problem might be because you drove a RHD car. Seating capacity might be asymetrical in the Gallardo (in favor of the normal car's left hand side driver).

    Try the RHD Gallardo's passenger seat and see if the footwell is bigger than the one on right side.
     
  20. stradman

    stradman Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
    1,284
    London UK
    Full Name:
    Stradman
    The left footwell is slightly wider. However this is no excuse at all. It is still a design fault. Ferrari 360's(and Audis for that matter!) have no problem between sides. They should at least take this into consideration when designing the car.
     

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