Tires in the Cold / CS / UTQG question | FerrariChat
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Tires in the Cold / CS / UTQG question

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Doody, Nov 18, 2004.

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  1. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
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    Mr. Doody
    #1 Doody, Nov 18, 2004
    i try to store my stupid cars for as little time as possible over the winter months. generally i try to keep driving until christmas - usually by the end of december there's a steady stream of snowfall. i try to get them back on the road in early march, weather-willing.

    the problem i'm having with the CS is that the PZero Corsas really dislike the cold temperatures. i'm not driving on ice or snow - it's just cold out. they're like big hard plastic discs for a while until they warm up. the lack of traction is hardly comforting!

    TireRack sells two alternative tires for the CS and i inquired as to their suitability for colder temperatures. their net-net was that neither would be helpful for me. now the fact that they're losing a sale by telling me this suggests maybe they're on the up and up, but my prior experience with similar(ish) tires on my 996TT, F355, and 550 suggest perhaps otherwise. on those cars, i never had these sorts of cold-weather problems at all - and i drove them all in temps well below freezing (never mind low 40s where the Corsas start to get pissy).

    TireRack's argument was that the UTQG values were relevant in the discussion, but it doesn't make sense to me:

    280 --- Continental ContiSportContact2
    300 --- BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDW2
    60 --- Pirelli PZero Corsa

    and now compared to what i had on the other f-cars:

    140 --- Bridgestone Expedia S01
    300 --- Michelin Pilot Sport

    the numbers don't jive with the statement "once the temps go below 40F the compounds will start to harden and by 25F will basically loose all traction capabilities" since i drove the S01s and Pilots without issue in these conditions.

    and the Corsas do seem to get their act back in gear once the tires warm up. i'm just not entirely comfortable that they've really gotten their act back in gear, if you know what i mean.

    so i was hoping to pick up another set of tires for nov/dec and mar/apr that would "behave" better.

    TireRack says they have no feedback from any customer re: putting the Contis or BFGs on their CS. it wasn't clear whether they'd sold any of either for a CS yet.

    so i'd love to hear what folks have to say on this front. OBVIOUSLY none of these high performance tires want to deal with temperatures like 40F and freezing and 25F. but i'm guessing there must be some tires "better" at it than the Corsas....

    tia,
    doody.
     
  2. Ira Schwartz

    Ira Schwartz Formula 3
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    Ira Schwartz
    #2 Ira Schwartz, Nov 19, 2004
    I have no experience with P Zero Corsas, but suspect that you're comparing apples to oranges. My understanding is that the Corsas are R-rated competititon tires, albeit DOT-rated. The others are street tires, albeit very performance-oriented ones. The difference between even ultra-high-perf street tires and R-rated comp tires is significant, believe me. It takes at least 2 laps to get any heat into the R-rated Michelin Pilot Sport Cups (NOT street Pilot Sports) that I use on my 348 Challenge car, before which they have no grip; once warm they're pretty sticky (VERY sticky relative to a street tire).
     
  3. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

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    #3 Doody, Nov 19, 2004
    so your argument Ira is that the UTQG numbers are largely irrelevant in this discussion?

    i couldn't make a correlation to TireRack's such argument based on my prior experience. i'm guessing that the guy who responded assumes the Corsa's are far more similar to the other discussed tires - which is not the case, as you and others have brought up on this board re: the R competition rating.

    doody.
     
  4. TCM

    TCM Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    552
    Tyngsborough, MA
    #4 TCM, Nov 19, 2004
    Doody:

    Interesting thread. I have found the Pirellis tend to be more affected by the cold then other makes. My Michelin Pilot Sports grip much better in the cold then my old Pirelli P7000SS. I have also heard that the Goodyear are useless under 40 degrees F from some Z06 guys. Conti's are ok, but I have never really liked what they offer in terms of grip.

    Now, as I am looking in their catalogue, I am finding one possible option for you. Out of the good tire brands, I could only find this setup with Michelin. Are you willing to go down in size on the rear tires?, if so, you could go with Michelin PS2 all around...

    front- Michelin PS2 225/35/zr19
    rear - Michelin PS2 275/35/zr19

    I do not think you are going to find a great solution to this situation as every tire has its drawbacks, especially performance tires in the cold. Let me know if you need some tires, as I have the wholesale accounts with many of the tire guys, including Tire Rack, so I can probably save you a little bit of money on them. Please let us know what you decide to do.
     
  5. Ira Schwartz

    Ira Schwartz Formula 3
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    #5 Ira Schwartz, Nov 19, 2004
    Doody- With whom did you speak at Tirerack? In the past I've had good experience with a guy named (I think) Ken Stacey, who knows comp tires well; perhaps you could speak with him. Maybe he can shed some light on this, as I'm not convinced that the UTQG numbers mean too much here.
     
  6. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2004
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    #6 4i2fly, Nov 19, 2004
    I am afraid 360CS is an extreme car with extreme tires to give it the grip it requires for full enjoyment. My theory is if these tires don't behave well in cold, there are no other tire that would give you the grip you are used to getting while driving the car during warm days with corsas. You will be diappointed. I would just take the car for longer stints and make sure the tires are warmed up before I get on it.
     
  7. lromanosky

    lromanosky Rookie
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    Aug 27, 2004
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    #7 lromanosky, Nov 19, 2004
    I have experience running R compound (treadwear 60) on the street, in this case Yoko A032R's, and they are indeed dangerous when the temp drops, even when the road is dry. When you go up the scale of treadwear index, the tires get better when cold. I would buy a 200+ treadwear tire for winter months. I'd go with the Michelin Pilot Sport 2's.
    Cheers, Lawrence.
     
  8. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
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    #8 enjoythemusic, Nov 19, 2004
    Doody,

    You probably won;t want to hear this but... i have a second set of rims for use in winter only and use Blazzak WS50. Then again where you are in New England it has MUCH less snow and mountain roads. Still, the salt/etc plays havoc on rims :(
     

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