Horsepower wars: Lamborghini to raise Gallardo output to 600 horsepower!

Clax
I'm not saying Lambo ain't always developing their cars. I'm not saying that there's not a G spyder in the pipeline. All I'm saying is that until you can buy one it's simply a possibility.

It will be interesting to me to see if Lambo can sell the Murcie Spyer for 325K+
IMO this price point is a challange as Rolls/Maybach/PCGT/ are finding out.
New Murcies are being adv. in NY for 254K. The Spyder Lambo of Dallas is offering has a msrp. of 347K That's a big premium.

As for Tom's question about the rumors surounding VW's entire plans for Lambo those rumors are def. floating around and as my friend in china posted they're coming from people inside of VW not F car dealers.

I think Matts right. If the new G comes out soon with an extra 100hp. current G's will really drop and those who are moved by them will able to get one for a really good price which will be good for them.
Best

 

As the person who said it was it was a sign of failure from Audi, I mean it in the sense of making the G even more distinct and desireable with or without more HP and TQ, especially in light of the fact that the G already outguns the 360 and the 575, but there's no waiting list for Gs. Hopefully they'll make changes that will give the car the character and charisma that makes Ferraris, and arguably makes Porsches.
For a car that is as stunning and potent as the Gallardo to not fly off the showroom floors indicates that HP and TQ might not be the silver bullet. Other factors such as interior styling, driver sensation at normal speeds, and overall charisma, may be even more important to buyers in this segment. Audi doesn't know anything about those factors, but I'm sure there are some Lamborghinisti who do.
I do agree with you that the increase in competition is always good. If the G develops 600HP, the Murci replacement 700+, then you can be certain Ferrari will make a 430 CS, the 600 will be much closer to the Enzo's performance than would perhaps otherwise be the case, and the Enzo replacement will be the closest anything has ever been to an F1 car.


Forza,


Cavallini

 

Great point, from all indications I've seen, this certainly holds true in the market in my area. The difference between the dealerships and their staff is night and day.

From personal experience, I can tell you I've been invisible whenever I've been at Ferrari. Even when I showed up as a passenger in a 360.

On the other hand, at Lambo, the staff has always been very friendly and respectful. The boss at Lambo even took a good 10 min to chat with me and answer my questions, even though I'm at least 5-10 years away from seriously considering a car in this league.

I certainly know where I'll take my money when the time comes.

 

600 hp with a car lighter than the murci...wow, this is going to be fast...the question is , where can one use this power on the street? at least with out killing yourself or someone else.....even on the track, most drivers dont have the skill to handle this much power correctly...i have driven the 580hp murci, and even that is scary fast..50 to 120 mph in a heart beat!!!!!the new g car will be faster still...and how about 700hp in the murci...bring on the enzo!!!!the good news is the price of current murci and g cars will go down futher....how about a 100k g car or a 140k murci?..who knows, but i quess its good for all of us....

 

I've always been treated very well at Ferrari of San Francisco. In fact, I consider them to be the best dealer I've ever dealt with. And I'm a first-time buyer (February 2004). Couldn't imagine a finer place to work with. So Lambo has a long wait for my business, even if they didn't depreciate much more rapidly.

Gary

 

This factor is at least as important as the car itself. Hopefully Lambo cars will make Ferrari dealerships perform better as well.

Forza,


Cavallini

 

FWIW, so far I've seen a couple 360's at the Lambo dealer, but no sign of Gallardo's at the Ferrari dealer.

 

I'm glad to hear you had a positive experience with your dealer. FoSF could certainly teach FoO a few lessons.

 

Even I am shocked at the insane bias and hatred shown in this thread towards anything Lamborghini. Some of you really need to RUN down to the therapist and begin working on the many issues in your life that cause you to have a persecution chip on your shoulder.

For the rest of you, the sane ones, let me sum up how a rational non-cheerleading lover of Italian sportscars responds to the news that the already strong Gallardo and Murcie will be getting more HP:

"Great."

That's it. Pretty simple really. Because none of the following are relevant to the guy who honestly loves these types of cars:

Appreciation/Depreciation - Couldn't care less. I buy the car for myself, not to worry about it's value to me for the next owner.

Racing Heritage - Couldn't care less. I won't be lining up an F430 or Gallardo on the grid next to Schumi anytime soon, and neither will anyone else.

Waiting Lists - Couldn't care less. I don't let others dictate to me what is good, and what is not, based simply on their innane opinions. I've seen a line waiting to get into a SIZZLER for god's sake, but it never meant that it made we want to sample their horse-meat selection.

Parent Company's Health, Stock Price, ETC - Couldn't care less. I guess a few of you really prize who owns the factories producing these cars, how well they're doing in relation to profit/loss, and all the other totally useless rhetoric that has no place when debating the cars in question. I would buy a Gallardo of F40 if PONTIAC made them, I could give a fck how "healthy" they are, lol. Hilarious.

I could go on, there are about four more things that the Ferrari-drones keep repeating in this thread, from Kindergarten class third party opinions actually meaning something, to people saying "oh gee oh my, that's too much power for the street, I'm happy in my 308!" but it's pointless.

Until a few people here actually DRIVE the cars they're SO passionate about insulting, and form their own opinions free from the Sizzler-crowd, no progress will be made by the agnostics like myself. Even Jim (Napolis) has called the Murcie one of the best supercar values on the market, and in that particular case he's absolutely correct.

But I guess even he is "dead wrong" because the Murcie "has no racing heritage" and because "Audi may sell Lambo to someone else".

 

Probably the besst thing I've ever seen on Fchat. Some of you guys should take a page out of this guys book.

 

Very well said, Never. One of the most reasonable post in this threads so far. Though I would worry about the financial health of the company not because I'm a stock holder/getting royalties or anything like that but rather getting support for my exotic car can be a pain in the butt if the company goes down. It will be harder to find parts, more expensive to get repairs (as if regular maintenance and parts changing is not expensive enough) etc.

As for the Ferrari Racing Heritage, I think its half hype and marketing. We should judge the car per se on the track and on the road and not automatically think that all F cars are automatically are superior because Ferrari has won tons of F1 races. If you read around and ask around, many G and M cars can hold their own against F cars.

 

And to expand upon that, there is not a car in the Ferrari lineup (except the Enzo) that can hold it's own against the M car. Ferrari is falling asleep at the wheel by not having a $300K mid-engine V12.

 

great job darth, you are the man!!!!!

 

Really? I disagree with almost everything he says, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Gary

 

Have a moderator check both IP addresses, emails, everything. I have no idea who "Sonora" or "mako" are, and I don't understand the insults you feel compelled to lob my way. Why are you so personally threatened by this topic? Answering post after post, all with anger in your tone...sad.

You're obviously upset over the fact that Lamborghini is in every way, shape, and form, Ferrari's equal when it comes to their street car offerings at this current point in time. And for no reason I might add, since again, only Ferrari's ownership and management have a legitimate right to be concerned one way or the other. You as a consumer shouldn't give a **** whether you go with Duracell or Energizer, as long as one of them works for you and you are happy with the choice you've made.

Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Porsche all make fanstastic cars that anyone who claims to be a sportscar fan should love to own. Also add Aston Martin, Pagani, and even Ford to that list with their surprising GT. All deserve and have earned your meager small-time praise. Yet, you lob insults. From the cockpit of a $25k 308 no less.

It's one thing coming from James. But from you? The world hinges on your limited flag-waving and narrow opinion? I think not.

To the rest of the group, it seems that this thread has degenerated into the usual Lambo v. Ferrari fanboy nosense, and that's sad. I said it at the start, and I'll say it again at the close: There's nothing "bad" about the Gallardo getting another 100HP. At all.

Just as it won't be "bad" when the 997 TT arrives, followed by the F430CS, and then the buffed up Murcie, etc, etc, etc. The cycle continues despite the cries of those who wish it would cease. Thank god.

 

The thing I find strange is that under Audi the creature comforts are for me still a bit weird. Styling is personal and as the EVO review shows they're both great cars. I've driven almost every exotic car that exists and even the older Lambo's such as the Muria SV Jota I drove a few weeks ago seemed to have more interior storage than the Murcie. (That one, ex Shah of Iran, BTW, is one of the GREAT cars of all time) My TR had map pockets, a glove box, a bit of a trunk, etc. the Murcie seemed to have fewer, smaller, and a less usuable interior to use as a Daily or GT cruiser than an 16 year older Ferrari.

The Murcie Spyder is another example. Can you imagine how much more usefull and cool that car would be with a top like the 575 Super Amercia?

Audi makes GREAT cars. The RS6 Turbo I drove to Bruce's Party was one of the best 4 door cars I've ever driven. The interior was super and usefull. That's what's a bit lacking in Lambo's for me.

My wife's Turbo Cayenne has the best interior of any vehicle I've ever driven.
Everything is right where it should be. It's well lit and the Nav system is easy to use. The radio,heat, wipers etc are perfect. (Except for the wiper needing an even higher high speed setting) The ride height controls, diff control, shock dampning. My daughters Tourag is very good as well. It's a mystery to me why some of this engineering hasen't found it's way into Lambo's. My Maser Coupe's interior, while not as refined as the Cayenne is IMO leaps ahead of the Murcie. The Bentley coupe is fine and for me much better than the Murcie's as well and that's from the same Co.

I've driven exotics over 450K miles and they've come a long way from the rag that was the defroster in my 275GTB. Hey maybe the letter I wrote Enzo about that is why the one in my Maser works much better.

 

I can understand how some guys apply typical collecting habits and pedigree needs onto these cars. I really can. I understand that those of you who have sharp wine collections for example, must have the lineage of the bottler and the house that created the wine to be just so in order for it to hold value to you.

That makes perfect sense to me.

And I can also say that though I don't agree with it, I can understand the application of these ideas to the car world as well. You feel compelled to own a car that comes from the pedigree of a multiple F1-world champion winning producer, as well as Ferrari's incredible racing history both as a driver himself while at Alfa, or as an owner, campaigning his products around the globe with a personal, emotional stake in it. You want a tangible link in your own mind that when you slip behind the wheel you're encompassed by all of those ghosts and victories.

I understand that all for sure, and I can see the romance in it, trust me.

But what I can't understand is the willingness to completely piss on a car that vastly outperforms say a 360, just because it doesn't have that lineage.

I can't understand that at all.

I can see the side of Jim and others who are into the nostalgic value of a marque's history. But it shocks me to see that the same group can't call a spade a spade and acknowledge that there are several cars being offered from multiple mfgs that are at least as compelling as being limited to one house in such a biased, blind way.

 

Excellent post.

 

Cognitive dissonance?

 

I can't wait until the other shoe drops!

DL

 

I'm glad you feel that everyone is jealous towards Lamborghini, mate. Puttin yourself on top of the mountain is always easy, huh.

Also your dealer argument makes zero sense. There was a guy here in NC who opened a great Ferrari dealership, one of the best. Then he sold it to go into retirement. He disliked being away from his cars so much he opened a new Lamborghini dealership. This guy is one of the best dealers in the nation no matter what he is selling, Ferrari or Lambo. The new Lambo dealer is better than the current (crap I might add) Ferrari dealership owned and run by a bunch of jerks. Now... what if the jerks opened a Lambo dealer? Does that make Ferrari the better company? No.

Also, your little 'I don't care' argument does not apply well. Many people, despite being wealthy enough to purchase an exotic car, cannot absorb an 80k loss on a car in several years. If you can, congratulations to your success because that is quite a bit of money. I also think racing heritage definitely helps build cars. Take the CS for example, made from parts of the Challenge cars to make a faster road car. Improvement. Good. Someone earlier made a good point about parts, labor, tuneups and how difficult and expensive they can become once a company goes bankrupt.

Sorry if I sounded a little aggressive or made little sense, I am just trying to make a simple argument but it is 1 AM after all.

 

I'm glad you feel that everyone is jealous towards Lamborghini, mate. Puttin yourself on top of the mountain is always easy, huh.

Not at all, Lamborghini is not at the top of the mountain alone. They share it with a few other marques, Ferrari being one of them, and certain individual cars (Ford GT comes to mind). Point is, it's no longer Ferrari's exclusive domain. Far from it in fact, as both the 575M and 360 are woefully obsolete and will remain so until the F430 and 600 Imola arrive.

Also your dealer argument makes zero sense. There was a guy here in NC who opened a great Ferrari dealership, one of the best. Then he sold it to go into retirement. He disliked being away from his cars so much he opened a new Lamborghini dealership. This guy is one of the best dealers in the nation no matter what he is selling, Ferrari or Lambo. The new Lambo dealer is better than the current (crap I might add) Ferrari dealership owned and run by a bunch of jerks. Now... what if the jerks opened a Lambo dealer? Does that make Ferrari the better company? No.

Have no idea what your point is here. I never suggested that Ferrari dealers were superior to Lambo dealers, or vice versa. I could care less about that frankly. If you're buying these cars based on which dealers you feel are the best, go buy a Honda and rest easy.

Also, your little 'I don't care' argument does not apply well. Many people, despite being wealthy enough to purchase an exotic car, cannot absorb an 80k loss on a car in several years.

Wrong. If that were the case, there would be no 575M buyers as that car literally loses $50k+ within the first 24 months of ownership, let alone four years out where it finds itself valued at less than 50% of its original MSRP. Despite that fact, those people will line up to purchase the 600 Imola without hesitation.

Again, if depreciation and the like is a concern, you shouldn't be buying any of these cars. You aren't financially sound enough to risk it.

I also think racing heritage definitely helps build cars. Take the CS for example, made from parts of the Challenge cars to make a faster road car. Improvement. Good. Someone earlier made a good point about parts, labor, tuneups and how difficult and expensive they can become once a company goes bankrupt.

Ferrari was the last sportscar mfg to incorporate ABS, ASR, variable power assisted steering, variable brakeforce distribution, etc, into their road cars. And when they finally did, they did it begrudgingly.

Meanwhile their F1 cars at the identical timeframe had each of these technologies available, as did then-current Porsches, and other sportscars of the time (NSX comes to mind).

Very little of Ferrari's "racing heritage" filters down to the roadcars, and never has frankly. Same goes for other mfgs as well, including Porsche. It helps for sure, you don't make progress at the edge of the envelope for road cars unless you're blowing through it in the racing arena, but for the last 50 years it's been more marketing fluff than reality. Even in the supercars, which Schumi himself has said multiple times, most recently about the Enzo.

There are certain examples where there are close ties for sure, no question. Like say the F-1 gearboxes, or the e-Diff that's featured on the F430. Certainly the racing programs offered those technologies first, and then saw them move down to the roadcars, which is great in my opinion.

But it's not a primary reason to disqualify a competitor's car in your mind, nor anyone else's. Reviews have the Gallardo beating the 360, even in editorial opinion (not even mentioning its superior performance). Ferrari's "racing heritage" had no effect on the outcome.

Same goes for the Ford GT.

Think about it: No one is saying "Well screw the Ford GT. That car blows becuase the GT40 hasn't raced on a circuit in 30 years. Not enough racing heritage and racing-inspired technology for me!" That would obviously be ridiculous, and ignorant, as is the same line taken by the "I buy Ferraris for the racing technology!" crowd.

And on your last point, don't fool yourself. Lamborghini isn't about to "go bankrupt", even if it would allow hundreds of blind and biased F-chatters to somehow fulfill their lifelong fantasies of artificial supremacy, lol.

Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche, and a few other marques and specific cars deserve your meager respect. They've earned it many times over. Despite your tone, and the tone of others in this thread. I'm happy to give it to all of them.

 

I am a now a Ferrari fanatic through and through, but your argument does not make sense in many respects.
If you want to talk depreciation, try buying a 575M, for that matter, I bought a Merc S600 in July, a 400K car in Aust, it is now worth LESS than 300K only 5 months later. You can hardly argue MB is an unsuccesfull company!
Lamborghini, with Audi backing it, has less likelyhood of bankruptcy than Ferrari with the financial basket case of Fiat as its owner.
I can't believe you guys are STILL arguing about this.
Face it, the Gallardo is a great car, this doesn't lessen the Ferrari, just adds to the smorgasboard of choices available to enthusiasts.