Agip SINT2000 10w50 substitute per Ferrari Customer Service

My Mondial manual says to use Agip Sint 10W50. It's no longer made. So Ferrari was recommending Agip Sint 10W40. Since I believe Ferrari's motives are more commercially driven rather than by a need to protect the longevity of my 17 year old engine, I did some research and decided upon Castrol Synthetic 5W50. If the Ferrari engineers (not the accountants) determined that my engine needed 50 weight oil, that's good enough for me.


Tom

 

The topic on what oil has been debated to death as I am sure that you are well aware of already. The classic Synthetic vs. Petro and of varies grades discussion can be found with a quick search. Make sure you go to the bathroom and have plenty of food and water before you start to search as it may take you hours if not days to sort throught them all

Since the OM recommend 10w-50 are well within the range of Castrol 5w-50, there is no reason why you couldn't just stay with that. If you do track your car, then 10w-60RS may be better suited. But for inventory ease, I am sure you can use 10w-60 for both cars. However, I do believe they are both awefuly expensive, similar in price to the Shell 10W-60.

On the side note, my understanding is that the with any 12 cylinder engines, they tend to starve for oil at start up if they have been sitting in the garage for long period of times as with cold climate. IMHO, I feel a 0W-XX oil is more suitable as they are now available. I would recommend Mobil 1 0W-40, which you can get off the shelf, for year round protection. For both economical reasons and for the better start-up protection.

 

Of course this has been touched upon in some of the responses to AEHaas' Motor Oil classes posted in this forum recently. He'll tell you that you should try a thinner oil (on the big number) and see if it maintains recommended oil pressure in YOUR usage profile. Unless you're doing hot laps at the track, you won't get the oil hot enough to need that 50 weight at all. I partially agree. We're all in agreement to use the lowest W number you can find with the big number you want. Going to a 60 weight oil is pretty nutty if you ask me; that's gonna be a lot of viscosity that you won't really NEED unless you're racing.

I often go +/- 10 on all of my cars and agree with the recommendation for 0W-40. You won't harm your engine from inadequate viscosity at operating temp and get the benefits of improved cold start pumpability. I would recommend a 5W-50 if you're too YELLA, MCFLY! to go with the 40. I recommend against Syntec as they led the way to "decontented" "full synthetic" oils; Quaker State makes a 5W-50 as well, but it may not be as readily available.

 

That is absolutely correct.....40W will make your oil pressure drop like a rock...

Stick with the 50W...

Obviously the AGIP vs. Shell reccy is based on business, man...

Royal Purple is better than BOTH, IMO.....go Purple. LOL!

 

If that is the rule you are following, then there is no reason why you couldn't just stay with Castrol 5W-50. Unless you really feel the need for and willing to spend the money for the 10W-60 oil.

 

It gets a little hotter down South than it does in Detroit...."Well, hush my mouth and fiddle dee dee"...

20-50W and fuggetabout it!

 

Yeah, thanks, Bubba, I remember that from the 22 years I spent in the Spring Branch area, San Antonio and B/CS. pwn3d!

I'm not talking about ambients here, the difference between an 80 degree summer day in Detroit and a 100 degree summer day in Houston is... mmm... I think about 20 degrees. That means about 25 degrees difference in oil temps. I'd bet you're gonna be seeing, maybe 200-220 since my 308 gets to about 170-180 around town up here and they both came with the same oil recommendation. Sound familiar to anyone? Fact is the oil recommendation is for worst case; in the case of a Ferrari that would be track usage, so we're talking 300 degree oil.

Here's the question with regards to going to 60 weight oil: do you think your current 50 weight oil isn't providing adequate protection now? On what would this be based? Is your oil pressure low? If there aren't answers to these questions, there's no need to go up, for sure! You're 99% guaranteed safe going with the original factory recommendation (before new commercial pressures came to be) and who out there is racing their Boxer in Texas? There's that 1%. If 50 weight was adequate 25 years ago, it's still adequate for the same engine now!

 

The BB's tend not only to run hotter as you said (no cooler) but they also generally also have looser lower ends. Many of them even when new had lots of bearing rattles at startup after an oil change. In your climate I would not hesitate to use 10-60 especially if you are good about warm up and tend to run the car hard.

 

Huh ?

 

If I may, I have noticed that just about everyone has an opinion on this topic and chances are that most of us will probably never change our opinion on it, atleast not within a short time. If a particular owner wishes to use thinner or thicker oil for whatever reason they may have, it is their cars and their engines. As you, many others and I feel that a 0W-XX oil is more than enough protection, we are not the ones that will be paying for engine repairs if it should ever need one. Case in point, instead getting into a huge, heated discussion, IMHO, we as forum members can only suggest and offer our opinion on this topic, and let them make the decisions.

Besides, there has been at least a dozen discussion on these topics on the forum as is.

 

...and here is another opinion worth very little but interesting all the same: if you spend any time in the NASCAR pits, the stuff they are putting in their engines is called Neo irrespective of who is sponsoring the car. I saw cans and cans of the stuff in everyone's trash after this observation was made by a friend of mine who also swears by 0-40 M1

 

my old 308 GTS did not like 10w40 oil.

it did not like 15w50 Mobile1.

my 1970's vintage Z28's and 455 Trans ams did not like thin sythetic oil.

my old GTS loved Castrol 20w50.

i tried the thinner is better thing, in agreement that the oil is too thick ect way of thinking. i had 10w40 oil in my "new" GTB for one day and drained it out. i put in Castrol 20w50 and the car loved it. by that i mean better oil pressure and cooler oil temps. i will occasionally add 1/2 to 1 quart of Marvel Mystery oil to substitute for one quart of whatever i am using. between the old gauges and the crappy electrics in the older cars, i am wondering how inn accurate the pressure and temp gauges are at this point. my old carb 308GTS had almost no pressure on the gauge when warm with thin oil, but the red light never came on. my 77 GTB has higher pressures with 20w50 and never gets over 200 on the oil temp gauge. i agree that a thinner oil may be better , but i have yet to find it. i get really REALLY nervous seeing an oil pressure gauge read low when warm.

 

Well supposedly Ryan Newman uses Mobil 1 Racing formula that you can now buy over the counter. This was a case of taking a uniquely developed oil from racing to the masses.

 

I agree with the first statement, but just for those that didn't read the debates following Ali's last chapter, I've looked for the math to back up the notion that flow is more important than higher viscosity for protection under load, but the only math that I, or anyone else, have offered up shows that protection is a function of viscosity (with a minimum flow), not flow.
Of course, that's for the fully developed hydrodynamic lubrication condition, at startup before the oil pressure builds, protection is a function of the chemical properties of the lubricant and you want the oil there ASAP, hence the importance of using a low W number as a quick-n-dirty indicator of quick flow at startup!

 

I think the last post is intended to be supporting the argument that maximizing flow is maximizing protection? Is that correct?

If so, I invite you to re-read mine above, and the KEY words unwisely hidden in parenthesis... "with a minimum flow". Note that I didn't say pressure anywhere. Then review this post: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134580056&postcount=16 and respond with the error of my interpretation. The question "Then why don't we all use infinitely thick oil?" is addressed in the above post as well.

Maximum separation force in a journal bearing is not a function of flow so long as adequate flow is present to replentish that which is pumped out! I encourage anyone and everyone on this board to show me where my post referenced above is in err!

 

i read the manual, i know the car uses a blend, but thank you for the help. i also agree the 20w50 may be too thick, as i said in my above post. i am fixing a few oil leaks and replacing the wheel bearings and having the axles rebuilt "while i am there". in a week or 3 when the car is alive again i am hoping to do the fuse block upgrade ( finally) and see what the heck is up with the oil pressure reading when the car is warm. bear in mind this car as a better ( higher) pressure on the gauge than my old 308 did. i believe the pressure is fine , but the old sending unit and ancient gauge are to blame. this car runs WAY better than the old GTS, another reason i wanted a GTB, since they drive and "feel" so different. i love to tinker and will sell this one and get one or two somethings in a few months, depending on how work goes. i have this itch to go to Europe and work on aircraft. i must be nuts, but i am so bored.... and single . with more $$$$ i could get some really nice Fcars later on! then i could worry about vintage V12 oil pressures!!! cheers, Michael.