The Mondial is COLD !!!!!! | FerrariChat
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The Mondial is COLD !!!!!!

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by TOM B, Dec 20, 2004.

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  1. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
    1,038
    Orange County, NY
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    Thomas Buckley
    #1 TOM B, Dec 20, 2004
    Today it's been in the single digits. I'm sure the Mondial has seen these temperatures before and maybe i've just forgotten the guage readings. The oil temp. did not get over 150 F and the water barely hit 140 F. When stopped and idling, they would go higher. Also, the cabin temp was not exactly toasty. Is this OK ?? Any Canadians wish to chime in?

    Tom in NY @ 5 F Brrrrrrrrrrr.
     
  2. jscar71

    jscar71 Formula Junior

    Jul 14, 2004
    354
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    JScar
    #2 jscar71, Dec 20, 2004
    i've driven my mondial cab in -10c weather. It's all normal.
     
  3. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    #3 snj5, Dec 20, 2004
    Driven mine in the teens and in snow. Sounds normal.
    Let it snow!
    rt
     
  4. bernardo66

    bernardo66 The Crazy Cat Man
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 14, 2003
    26,592
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    Bernie
    #4 bernardo66, Dec 20, 2004
    So did I.
    And don't forget to mention how much fun leather seats are when they're rock solid cold.

    BTW Tom, Orange County is only about 5 hours south of Montreal, so if it's cold here, chances are it's cold there.

    Bernie @ -26C....DAMN it's f*ckin' cold!!!
     
  5. bernardo66

    bernardo66 The Crazy Cat Man
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 14, 2003
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    #5 bernardo66, Dec 20, 2004
    In Texas?
     
  6. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    #6 snj5, Dec 20, 2004
    In Kaiserslautern, Germany and Alexandria,Virginia. Mondial #75039 and I are world travellers. :)

    Goodness gracious - it was like 68F here today and sunny!

    Bernie, you brought back some memories of those rock hard seats on a cold morning - brrr!
    Guys - I hate to sound like I'm stuck in the 80's, but I had a set of those sheepskin seatcovers once and let me tell you - THEY WORK WELL IN THE COLD!

    Best to my buds in the Great White North!
    rt
     
  7. bernardo66

    bernardo66 The Crazy Cat Man
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 14, 2003
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    #7 bernardo66, Dec 20, 2004
  8. sjmst

    sjmst F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 31, 2003
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    Long Island, NY
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    #8 sjmst, Dec 20, 2004
    I dunno, Tom. My car heats up to normal temp and gets pretty toasty inside.
     
  9. Just_some_dude

    Just_some_dude Karting

    Apr 1, 2004
    114
    #9 Just_some_dude, Dec 20, 2004
    I personally would cover up part of the radiator with some cardboard to warm things up a little bit, at least to a temperature that would allow the engine thermostat to open, probably about 160-180F, that would most likely allow hot coolant to flow through your heater core thus allowing your heater to work much better. Also allowing the engine to warm up to full operating temperature might reduce wear and make the car run better.
     
  10. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
    1,038
    Orange County, NY
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    Thomas Buckley
    #10 TOM B, Dec 21, 2004

    Thanks for all your input, but I was thinking of doing this as well. But then I got to thinking. With the way a thermostat works, shouldn't a car be able to reach operating temps independent of the ambient temperature? I mean, the thermostat should be closed to the radiator until the coolant is up to 180 F---right? I'm just a little concerned about the engine not being at antwhere near operating temperatures.
    The way I read it, i've got 3 answers to my question here. 1. It's normal, just drive it. 2. It's not normal. 3. It's not normal, do some blocking off of the radiator.
    One additional piece of information. This summer, I replaced the piece of foam above the radiator with a new piece. Is it possible that I caused the radiator to now work TOO efficiently?
    Is there a quick way to check if the thermostat is operating properly? But, on the other hand, the temperatures do approach normal when I let it idle for awhile. Oh heck, maybe I should just do the cardboard thing on the radiator and oil cooler?
    Or move to Texas? :)
    Thanks for all the help.

    Tom
     
  11. milstanselnino

    milstanselnino Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2004
    573
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    Jon P.
    #11 milstanselnino, Dec 21, 2004
    I would not use cardboard or anything like that. My Mondial was able to get toasty, even at -10F. Check the thermostst and the coolant flow.

    Hope you get toasty warm soon.
     
  12. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
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    #12 Ken, Dec 21, 2004

    I'm not a Ferrari guy but it sure sounds like the thermostat is stuck open. My Lotus had the same symptoms and that was the cause.

    Ken
     
  13. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
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    #13 enjoythemusic, Dec 21, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    (Said in good humor) You bunch of wussies!!! Now THIS is COLD (last night at about 12am) in New Hampshire USA

    Wonder what oil the guys here recommend for these temps ;)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    #14 Birdman, Dec 21, 2004
    Sheesh Steve, you only have the inside at 63? Your GF is probably shivering. (Hard to get 'em naked when they are frozen...)

    Tom, I think you should check that the thermostat works. When cold, it shouldn't be circulating water to the radiator. The send to the heat exchanger is seperate, so it should be sending pretty warm water to the heat as soon as the block is warm, regardless of what the thermostat is doing. A simple way to check is start the car when cold and put your hand on the radiator. If it starts getting warm immediately, you might want to replace the thermostat. It should stay cool for a while until the thermostat opens, at least I think. I'm not sure if there is a tiny flow to the radiator when the thermostat is closed. Some tech guru help me out here....

    At least on a 308, a way to help the oil situation is to partially block the intake to the oil cooler (left intake). Steve (above post) gave me the tip of stuffing a rag in the opening until the car is warm. I was thinking it would be cool to make a little black rubber insert to use in cold weather that just reduces the size of the intake to reduce the flow. In cold weather, my 308 never gets the oil up to temperature if I'm going more than 10 MPH. The oil temp is your most important issue in cold weather because you want that oil to thin out. Uh oh, I started an oil discussion again....

    Birdman
     
  15. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
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    #15 TOM B, Dec 21, 2004
    Thanks to all for your suggestions. Just like we all suspected, it's the thermostat. The dealer quoted >$100.00. :( So instead, I tried the quick, cheap, Italian fix, I gave the housing a few whacks with a hammer. It worked. Temperature now goes pretty quickly >180 F and i'm actually getting heat out of the heater. Since I really don't want to spend >$100.00 on a thermostat, on Thursday, when I don't need the car, I'll pull the thermostat and see if NAPA can come close. I'll let everyone know the results.

    Thanks again. Your's in warmth,

    Tom :)
     
  16. Just_some_dude

    Just_some_dude Karting

    Apr 1, 2004
    114
    #16 Just_some_dude, Dec 21, 2004
    Hehe! That's great, I as an engineer also, I used a 2x4 piece of wood to whack and fix many cars, glad you found the problem. About the foam you removed from around the radiator, on some vehicles removing the fan shroud or equivalent may cause air to flow around, instead of through, the radiator which would make the car run hotter. Also, your analysis of how the thermostat should work was correct, assuming your thermostat was functioning correctly, blocking off part of the radiator in cold climates is ok for cars with very efficient cooling systems, like high performace cars that can make lots of power and big trucks that have to haul heavy loads at slow speeds. Since the problem was a stuck thermostat replacing that would be the right thing to do.
     
  17. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

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    #17 TOM B, Dec 27, 2004
    OK. I finally pulled the thermostat today and it was broken. The brass "crown" was missing and the center portion was totally separated from the perimeter. In essence, it was non-functioning. I took the pieces to my local NAPA and found a match. NAPA # 117 for the thermostat and 1073 for the housing gasket. You'll have to re-use the rubber gasket which goes around the thermostat.

    It fits well with no leaks and works well. That's in the garage where I confirmed that the thermostat was not passing coolant to the radiator until properly warmed to 180 F. Tomorrow I will test it on the road but anticipate no problems. Cost.....$14.00. :)

    Tom
     
  18. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
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    Thomas Buckley
    #18 TOM B, Dec 28, 2004
    Just took the car out and I am happy to report that the thermostat is working the way it should and I actually have more heat in the cockpit than I'd like and had to turn it down from Maximum. This has got to be way better for the engine also. :)


    Tom
     
  19. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
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    #19 tuttebenne, Dec 28, 2004
    Tom,

    Glad to hear that you found the problem and solved it. Thanks for posting the cross=reference numbers. I was planning to do the thermostat in my car and didn't want to go the unnecessary route of OEM if not necessary. If I come up with a cross-reference for the rubber gasket I'll re-post. Seems that my 300E thermostats use the same type of gasket. Wouldn't it be nice if the local M/B dealer had what we needed?

    Andy
     
  20. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

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    #20 TOM B, Dec 29, 2004

    Andy,
    You are more than welcome. Did a bunch of driving today and everything worked perfectly. I even had heat to spare in the cockpit. With the water temperature finally being where it should, the oil temp is up too. The car seems to be running better.:)
    Don't forget to post the # for the rubber gasket....if it fits.


    Tom
     
  21. flyingboa

    flyingboa Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2003
    1,564
    Italy
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    Eugenio Dalla Rosa
    #21 flyingboa, Dec 29, 2004
    Thomas,
    reading this thread makes me wanderif my 328 cooling system is working fine. I know that temperatures are not high in northern Italy at the moment (around zero), but water temp never raises. Could you please write the original P/N of your thermostat so that, if mine is the same, I can do the job on the 328 as well?
    Thanks and ciao
    Eugenio
     
  22. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
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    Thomas Buckley
    #22 TOM B, Dec 30, 2004

    Eugenio,
    The part # for the thermostat is 128991; for the rubber gasket # 132980 for Austria & Switzerland , # 105192 for the rest of the world; housing gasket #105189.
    These #'s are for the 3.2 Mondial, but are the same for 328's and most probably the 308's.
    Before performing unneccessary work, verify that your thermostat is malfunctioning. The thermostat should only open when the coolant temperature reaches 175 F - 185 F in the engine. Until that point, the radiator should be cold to the touch. If, on the other hand, the radiator is constantly warm, then the thermostat is either stuck in the "open to the radiator" position or broken into three pieces as mine was.
    If the car passes this test and the cockpit is able to get nice and warm when the heat is turned on, you may have a failed guage, sending unit, or wiring.

    Good luck.

    Tom
     
  23. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    #23 snj5, Dec 30, 2004
    Tom
    Great info!
    Many thanks!
    Happy New Year
    rt
     
  24. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
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    Thomas Buckley
    #24 TOM B, Dec 30, 2004

    My pleasure Russ. I hope to one day see that fire-breathing, carbureted, Monster Mondial of yours. BTW, San Antonio is where my Mondial came from 4 years ago. Bought it from a cattle rancher grandmother. Drove it back to NY. What a road trip. :)

    Happy New Year to you and yours!

    Tom
     

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