So what's the story, then? I pasted from Winton Supp Regs...what you've shown is what I've always seen in the past..changed from NON Ferraris though, I believe. What's going on?
My point exactly - if FTD is the main event, why not just let anyone run anything they want. There is zero logic in not letting me put slicks on my 550 with or without a friggin roll cage. One day someone will turn up with a F1 car to a track day. I'd like to see what the committee says about that.
No Syd, that's not right. The reason why they don't want cars to run on slicks is because they don't want people to rock up with cars on trailers, multiple wheels/tyres etc which is what was happening with the Porsche club at the time the rules were written. I'm TOTALLY against cars running slicks, quite frankly. I'm not even happy that they allow Hoosiers! Clearly, however, cars like NGTs and 360Ch HAS to run slicks, but why the 355CH is specifically excluded from running them is beyond my comprehension....not that it worries me, but I remember it bugged Scott.
Yes, it absolutely buuged the **** out of me. Basically because of this: "However on any car built or commissioned by Ferrari primarily for competition appropriate competition tyres may be used. (355Challenge cars excepted.)". Anyone who has driven a "race spec" 355 Challenge (not PP's sanitised version), knows that Ferrari built them for racing only. They are vastly different to the road 355's. In fact in almost all world markets outside Australia, a 355 Challenge can't be road registered. Ferraris bill of sale says it's a race car and it doesn't comply with emission/safety requirements. The FCA ruling was a load of crap made up by people who had no understanding of what a 355 Challenge was. Even on R rated tyres, it was a much faster car than the road 355's or even the road 360's (Calder excepted). However, it had no hope of getting close to the 360 Challenge cars. A large part (not all) of this was the slicks allowed on the 360 Challenge. BTW, I am of the view that people should be able to run any Ferrari they like. It's NOT, and I repeat, NOT real racing. There are many avenues to go racing if you wish. The FCA should just have a "SUPER MODIFIED" catagory in which all the race cars etc can run.
It's a club event. It's a "drive your car to the track and back" day. If you want to drive a race car, go elsewhere! A lot of people are intimidated....we all know that...and winton is proof that WE need the numbers!! The last thing we want to do is scare people off so that a couple people with cars that don't REALLY meet with the spirit of what the day is all about can have a good day.
So are you in favour of a total free for all? I am. I know 360CH etc must run on slicks, and they already arrive on trailers etc. I have no problems that there are cars arriving on trailers - I love seeing the F40s and the CHs, but I can't understand the logic of why those cars are allowed, yet road cars aren't allowed to run any tyres they want. It's just BS to say that we don't want people spending $$$ on slicks for road cars but other can spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$ on a purpose built track car. If I want to spend $$$ on tyres I should be allowed to if others can run race cars.
You can say it's BS all you want...but that's the reason, and I agree with it. As well as the feeling of it being a day of competition instead of enjoyment. Why do you actually think they brought these rules about no slicks in in the first place? That rule wasn't there in the 80s! It was brought in to keep costs down and to maintain the spirit of the day. I remember long discussions about avoiding the sort of competitive nature that had developed in the PCCV. I'm starting to sound like a friggin broken record now. The FCA has been there, done that. Allowing slick is NOT good for more than one reason, and it's been proven, not just with us, but other clubs as well.
Thanks Scott, I was one of them At the time the ruling was made, it specifically addressed the 355 Challenge from the point of view that it was a normal 355 with a "Kit", not factory built as a complete car. The committee, at the time, were basically against slicks as a principle, but recognised the need for them on legitimate competition cars that may, if we are lucky, turn up to track days. Don't lose the context of the timing of that decision - it was pre "race spec" 355's & 360CH's. In hindsight, I still believe the decision was a correct one, particularly when a superior "road" tyre choice was available if the competitor required (Hoosiers). In today's context, I also feel that it still holds good - though given good reason, I could be convinced otherwise I think all these rules need re-visiting from time to time - maybe if enough members feel the same, the committee would look at it. John
Just whacking some slicks on and see how much faster you can go is VERY dangerous. Slicks MASSIVELY increase loads on suspension, chassis and brakes. a 550 (and most other std road Ferraris) in std form (or close to it), would suffer catastrophic brake failure in very quick time at most tracks (Winton and PI only remote exceptions). I think a rule could be written that all slick shod cars MUST HAVE competition front brakes (calipers/discs hoses and pads) at least, and maybe race seats and a full harness for both seats, but no doubt there'll be those that disagree, and a full harness is hard to fit in many models without installing a cage. 550 in particular. I know Hoosiers are almost as good as slicks, so there's just so much grey area I'm afraid. FWIW, 360C don't have to use slicks, they come from factory on road tyres. But I can tell you now you wont ever get one to a track again if it can't use them.
That's just crap. What do you think people are more interested in seeing- the ultra exotic race cars/ F40/50 Enzo's etc, etc or a fleet of 360/355's that they can see any day of the week in Chapel street South Yarra????? I attended Ferrari Club days LONG before I had the money to buy any Ferrari at all. I would just about jump out of my skin any time a "special" Ferrari showed up. Even your jaded self has been known to spend hours in the car to go to a track and see a Super exotic in person. Any time I go to the track in the Michelotto there is a line of people wanting a ride. People want to see the really rare and exotic, that's a fact. As for intimidation, you have a point. It can be minimised by good organisation on the day IMO. There is nothing worse than being "monstered" by an inconsiderate driver in a much faster car. This can happen when you mix cars of different speeds and drivers of varying abilities. This was handled better in the "old days" then it is now. These days it's more of a free for all and it's going to end in tears IMHO. The attitude of some of the drivers needs to be firmly checked at drivers briefings (also better in the old days). The current set up is better in other respects. As to the need for "numbers"- why don't YOU turn up now your "mate" is gone? Making a lot of noise for someone who doesn't run anymore...... As for a solution- open up eligibility ala Maserati Club. Rising costs have put an end to the aim of making it a "Ferrari only" affair. I personally have no problem putting the Michelotto on the track with other cars- providing everyone follows the rules. Specifically- NO passing under brakes or in corners and WATCH YOUR MIRRORS. If we had more numbers we could afford to pay for flaggies etc. Enough.
I know I'm just a dumb girl but... surely all this could be solved by having separate sessions for 'non-road' and 'road' cars then everyone gets a go, those who love to see the exotics run get some gratification and the rest can have a safe day. Guess that still leaves the Hoosier grey area. More runners = less cost and more events likely to happen, plus a wider range of people likely to have a go. I think club days could do without prizes for FTD or anything else - it should be about PB's and let the serious racers compete for the silverware in other events. BTW, I think the committee is entitled to grizzle when events aren't supported - they are volunteers after all and are only trying to do what members ask for. There's a bloody lot of work involved and not too many volunteers to do the boring bits (timing, marshalling etc) I don't think.
Trouble is with more classes you get less and less track time. I think all sessions should be a free for all. The speed difference is meaningless, in fact it's actually more dangerous and frustrating to have closley matched cars together than it is to have vastly differing speeds together....check ANY 24hr race for examples. Using Bathurst for eg, you get cars doing 2.15's sharing with cars doing 2.45's, and they don't trip over each other too much...AND they're racing. Free for all usually results in a mad 15 minutes, then it settles down into a rythm with everyone coming and going as it suits them. I don't think allowing "disposable" cars is a good idea. I know numbers need to be up, but it just asks for trouble. Red mist is impossible to control with words, but dollars seems to get it under control.
I'm not talking about spectators. I'm talking about people who want to drive their cars. I go to see you and YOUR exotic (or even what you had before that, remember?). I don't go to see other exotics, but i might go to watch a "day". Do you think the regular punters go because your car is going to be there? or the F40LM? no..of course not. And the non regulars go there because they want to take their car on the track. and hello?? i don't know about you, but I went to 2 of the 3 ferrari club days last year. How's the memory going? How many did you go to? OOOops...2 out of the last 4, i think.
Club members go to see other cars as well. Do you think they would turn up if there was nobody else there? No they wouldn't, even though they could still drive their car. It is a social event as much as getting a buzz out of driving. So I disagree with you. I remember you making a trip to see the F50GT at Phillip Island. The only other cars there were a couple of 360 Challenge cars. Looks like you DO go especially to see other exotics in action. And as for your attendance, going and standing in the pits hardly counts does it? That's going to really help the clubs bottom line....... I hadn't counted my track days- which ones did I allegedly miss? I never go to Sanddown, so obviously missed that one. If I missed Winton and Phillip Island it could only be lack of a car or work commitments. I don't go to track days run by other clubs, where the FCA is invited and not hosting. Maybe you are counting those.
always been a "gentleman" from what I've seen at least Peter is even-handed about it, he insults everyone , even himself my wife thinks I'm in love with all the VIC guys but I ain't telling the truth... gonna come to dinner with the infamous gang of twenty Karen ?
You're talking racing here Phil. You have drivers with a lot more skill and experience than the average FCA member who might hit the track 2 or 3 times a year. I can assure you that there are plenty of near misses when you have massively different car speeds and driver abilities. Add some bad attitudes and "racing" and you get bent metal and possibly injured people. I have seen maybe a dozen or more Ferraris get bent at track days over the last 20 odd years. The better the organisation on the day, the less problems there are. There will be drama if the active racers don't save the "racing" for the REAL racing days. I have been to a few Maserati days where "disposable cars" make up the numbers. I can't say that I have ever seen an accident (no doubt there have been some). I don't like Maserati days; but it isn't because of the cheap cars on the track.
errrrr...ok...i don't see what "a social day" and "going to see exotics" has in common...but if you say so, dear. And what the hell is WRONG with your memory??????? I did NOT go to PI to see the F50GT. Bloody hell man...get a grip! If you can't get a fact like that right, why would i believe ANY of the "facts" that you quote? and DUH...if i say I went to two track days, then OBVIOUSLY I mean with my car on the track. ...and even when the dropkick was running the days, I went a couple of times for the morning sessions. I think you'd best shut up if you can't remember the facts correctly. Not point talking rubbish just to try and prove a point...it only makes you look foolish.
You have to be kidding? If you haven't seen some MAJOR bingles on those days, then it's only been because you went on the wrong days! Geoff Beables...is that his name? rolled his turbo last year. Wasn't your ex 328 bingled on one of those days? What about dean's 360ch? Mate, seriously, I don't know what's wrong with you today, but you better get some brain food!
Ok, why DID you go to Phiilip Island if it wasn't got the GT1? That was the reason I (and a lot of other people) were ther. I don't remember the last time I saw you on the track. I'm guessing the only events you have gone to are the Maserati days. You are just plain wrong about people attending a day to see super exotics. Plenty of people here- yes or no?
